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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Pulsating picture/sound? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Pulsating picture/sound?
Don E. Nelson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 138
From: Brentwood, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 2001


 - posted 07-27-2004 05:35 PM      Profile for Don E. Nelson   Email Don E. Nelson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I went to see The Notebook, last week at a 2 year old Regal Theatre. Approx. Reel 3 was pulsating very slowly, the sound would slowly go down 3db, as the picture was jumping around and dimming, and then snap it was good to go until 2-3 min. and the same thing happened again. Strangest thing I ever saw. One reel only,... what do you suppose caused this?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17590
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-27-2004 05:54 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
One of those reels with 3 lab splices and lab fogging in it, which according to some people "can never happen", but I see it at least twice a year. The reel should have been replaced.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-27-2004 06:33 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with Brad that it may be a reel that was printed on raw stock spliced together from short ends, especially if the pulsation was bluish in color (safelight fog when making the splices) and happened at about the same time as any change in the analog sound. If the processing machine operator didn't detect it during high speed inspection, it should have been caught during theatre inspection and make-up, and a replacement reel immediately requested.

Here is the official policy of the Association of Cinema and Video Laboratories (ACVL):

http://www.acvl.org/manual/4c.htm

quote:
In release printing, it is recommended that there be a maximum of two splices per 400 feet of 16mm or 1000 feet of 35mm. These two splices may be insert splices, or one of the two splices can be a raw stock splice. There should never be two raw stock splices in the same reel. It is further recommended that spliced raw stock not be used in trial prints, dailies, TV spots or recording prints. It is customary practices to charge a premium for release prints that have no raw stock splices.


AFAIK, "The Notebook" was NOT printed on Kodak stock.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-27-2004 07:56 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Would the type of print stock affect the number of lab splices? I know that Kodak print stock is available in both 2000' and 6000' lengths. Do other manufacturers supply the longer lengths as well?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-27-2004 08:29 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It could affect the color of any safelight fogging, which varies with the type of stock and what kind of safelights are used.

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Chris Hipp
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1462
From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas)
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted 07-27-2004 11:20 PM      Profile for Chris Hipp   Email Chris Hipp   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
could it simply have been sprocket damage? perhaps it was running is Dolby digital and the perforations were damaged so it dropped into analog, that could account for the drop in volume. I'm sure that is too simple of an explanation though.

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Dominic Case
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 131
From: Sydney NSW Australia
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 07-28-2004 03:46 AM      Profile for Dominic Case   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Norwood
Do other manufacturers supply the longer lengths as well?
Yes!

2,000, 4,000 and 6,000 are common lengths.

Feature spools come in odd lengths, typically 1400 - 1900 ft. It's impossible not to have lab splices, unless we throw away vast lengths of raw stock.

A printer or processor speed fluctuation might cause what you described. As John Pytlak says, it should be replaced as soon as it's reported.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-28-2004 05:36 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Dominic Case
A printer or processor speed fluctuation might cause what you described. As John Pytlak says, it should be replaced as soon as it's reported.


Yes, that could have happened too. But I suspect some fogging because of the reported change in sound level. And "jumping around" may be associated with a raw stock splice.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-28-2004 12:32 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's the Kodak Catalog listing KODAK VISION Color Print Films and the formats and roll lengths:

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en/motion/catalog/colorPrint.pdf

quote:
2383
70 mm CAT No. Sales Unit Min. Units
VCP542 2000 ft; On Core KS-1870 822 4206 1 roll 1
VCP542 2500 ft; On Core KS-1870 846 7862 1 roll 1
35 mm
VCP666 1000 ft; On Core KS-1870 169 7481† 1 roll 6
VCP242 2000 ft; On Core BH-1866 852 3581 1 roll 1
VCP666 2000 ft; On Core KS-1870 827 4037 1 roll 1
VCP701 2000 ft; On Core BH-1870 124 6883 1 roll 1
VCP779 2000 ft; On Core KS-1870 187 2241 1 foot 152,000*
VCP666 3000 ft; On Core KS-1870 140 2569† 1 roll 2
VCP779 3000 ft; On Core KS-1870 124 6016 1 foot 228,000*
VCP779 4000 ft; On Core KS-1870 188 5920 1 foot 304,000*
VCP789 6000 ft; On Core KS-1870 873 9773 1 foot 114,000*


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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 07-28-2004 01:35 PM      Profile for Steve Scott   Email Steve Scott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It was probably off the same negative that our print of 'The Notebook' was struck from. I pulled out a few two foot sections of film from R3 where the entire width of the film was dark green, all around a lab splice.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-28-2004 01:49 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Scott
It was probably off the same negative that our print of 'The Notebook' was struck from. I pulled out a few two foot sections of film from R3 where the entire width of the film was dark green, all around a lab splice.


"Safelight" fog around a lab splice is usually due to the operator taking too long to make the splice, or having the safelight too bright or too close to the raw stock print film. The printing negative is not being fogged.

Shedding New Light on Darkroom Illumination

quote:
SMPTE Presentation by John Pytlak

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Robert L. Fischer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 145
From: Montreal, Quebec
Registered: May 2004


 - posted 07-28-2004 03:04 PM      Profile for Robert L. Fischer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I noticed something similar to this on a Collateral trailer that came loose in the cans with the Bourne Supremacy. Has anyone else noticed this?

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Steven Jantzen
Film Handler

Posts: 30
From: goodwell, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Jul 2004


 - posted 07-28-2004 08:33 PM      Profile for Steven Jantzen   Email Steven Jantzen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
0nly on the taxi trailer that came with the terminal [puke]

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Dominic Case
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 131
From: Sydney NSW Australia
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 07-29-2004 03:11 AM      Profile for Dominic Case   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: John Pytlak was the last to post
the entire width of the film was dark green, all around a lab splice.
Not a negative fog then. Dark green would be cyan fog from a red torch on the print stock - not good lab practice.
Fog on the negative would be (a) light, not dark on the print and (b) only in the image area - not right across the entire width of the film.

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Robert L. Fischer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 145
From: Montreal, Quebec
Registered: May 2004


 - posted 07-29-2004 04:46 AM      Profile for Robert L. Fischer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh well, I don't find the Taxi trailer to be very intriguing anyway.

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