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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Platter Keeps Tossing Prints (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Platter Keeps Tossing Prints
Jacob Szewczyk
Film Handler

Posts: 18
From: Olney, Maryland, USA
Registered: Jun 2004


 - posted 07-16-2004 05:38 PM      Profile for Jacob Szewczyk   Email Jacob Szewczyk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi, once again, I have a problem with the piece of [bs] platters at my thearter. We're using CFS Super Platters, and on one particular platter, the last reel of about every movie on it eaither gets tossed of comes very close to falling off the platter. Whats causing this?

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1492
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-16-2004 05:48 PM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have no personal experience with the CFS platters, but from what I hear they are not too well liked.

What you are experiencing is a STATIC ELECTRICITY problem! Solutions for this problem have been beaten to death in other threads...but here's a recap:

Ensure your platter is properly grounded in the electrical outlet.

The use of aluminum rollers such as what Christie has done with their pay-out heads.

Using FILM-GUARD!

Some have also lightly sprayed the top of the print with A LIGHT COAT of ant-static clothing spray.

Using the platter rings that Brad now has.

Also ensuring the platter is properly timed and operating smoothly!

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2274
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 07-16-2004 06:20 PM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A CFS platter can get out-of-time just as easily as a Strong.

IF you haven't moved the platter motors since this problem came up, check the motor that is running takeup when you're in "toss-the-print" mode. If the drive pulley is binding up, it will slow the motor down, forcing the variac to provide more voltage to compensate. That will also cause your feed platter to build up more speed before the feed switch turns it off... and you know the rest.

On the other hand, IF you've changed motor positions recently, either put it back or check your manual for timing instructions.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17641
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-16-2004 06:20 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Will is sort-of on the right track.

*CFS platters are pure evil straight from the bowels of hell.

*The aluminum rollers don't do anything. Save your money.

*Do not use FG and then go spraying some kind of anti-static spray designed for clothes. FG will work just fine on it's own, but if you use something else, don't go playing chemist and mix tons of items together. You could end up glueing the print together with some untested concoction.

*The safety rings will not work on CFS platters.

*Throw those platters in the trash or burn the building down, whichever is easiest.

*If disposing or burning the building down is out of the question, ask Aaron Sisemore for assistance, as he has to deal with a slew of those at his theaters.

*I feel your pain and you have my deepest sympathies for having to deal with them.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-16-2004 07:17 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kodak VISION Color Print Film has a conductive antistatic backing that makes it much more resistant to "static cling" than previous color print films. The higher humidities of summer help control static too, as most static problems occur in the winter, when indoor heating dries out the film emulsion, making it less conductive. In the US, "static cling" problems tended to occur most from November through April.

I suspect most of the issue you describe is incorrect platter timing, since it occurs mostly on a particular platter. It is also very important to restrain the outside circumference of the film roll, so abrupt variations in speed can't throw the last reel or two off center, and eventually off the platter.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16062
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-16-2004 07:46 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In Utah they are known as "Stupid Platters". Of course we also have the Neumade "Neurotic" platters as well. They are both on the same level of quality. You will find that those that actually like these two platters are those that are still driving and liking their Yugos!

Mark

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-16-2004 07:56 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Several things may be happening here:

1. IS the motor 'vibrating' when it runs up as the switch kicks in? The vibration can cause the end of a print (which weighs very little) to literally vibrate right off the platter deck!

Solution: Replace the motor. If the new motor vibrates excessively at speed, try bending the bracket the motor mounts to until the vibration is minimized.

2. Does the 'dancer' roller on the back of the platter tree oscillate up and down more than an inch or so as the film gets near the end? Possible causes here are:

a. The take up disc is bent or warped causing erratic dancer movement- Solution: Straighten or replace the disc.

b. The motor is bad and has an intermittent open circuit- Solution: replace the motor.

Static electricity doesn't cause thrown prints on CFS platters, it only causes brainwraps.

Hope this helps.

-Aaron

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16062
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-16-2004 08:33 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Aaron,
I heard that all you guys at Cinema West drive Yugos.... [Wink] . Don't you have somrthing good in the warehouse you could sell this guy???

Mark

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Peter Mork
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 172
From: Newton, MA, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 07-17-2004 12:24 AM      Profile for Peter Mork   Email Peter Mork   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Simple thing to try: If you have used the clutch to disengage the motor during a print breakdown, when you re-engage it, it may not seat properly, and the drive shaft will slip and won't drive the idler wheel, and you get the effect that Jack described. Try just grabbing the motor and pushing up on it. It may work.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-17-2004 02:57 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Had this problem on a Christie platter once -- was not leveled properly when installed.

Had this problem with ORC platters a lot -- no in-between speeds, only on/off which resulted in stop-n-go motion on the outer reels. The light weight of that small amount of film was no match for the lurch of the ORC platters. This was a short-lived headache a while back but IIRC the fix was either service the motor, install new payout potentiometer or both. The REAL fix was when we upgraded to Christie platters.

By any chance, does the print in question have a permanent bulge?

I've been out of the tech biz since February but I don't recall that many static problems of late. Maybe I was lucky.

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John Hegel
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 166
From: Lake Mills, Iowa
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 07-17-2004 03:53 AM      Profile for John Hegel   Author's Homepage   Email John Hegel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is going to sound odd, but out of the different platters I have run I like the super platters.

For me, the key to keeping the blue cfs's happy, was to time all of the decks exactly to the same speed. After the timing was complete adjust the variac so that when you start the show the dancer will almost hit the bottom shut-off limit.

I've seen this done wrong at another place... the whole staff thought it was normal to frantically run to the platter and slow them down when the show started.

When the show is running the dancer will sit at about 1/3 of the way to the top of its travel. By doing this when the micro-switch turns on it will slowly ramp up the pay out speed. When it turns off, the payout will cost (not stop) until it turns on again.

My old theater ran the platter like this for years and never had a problem. some people would tape an object to the deck at the very end of the tail to hold it in place, but we did not need to use multiple objects to keep the print from flying off.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-17-2004 01:13 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I heard that all you guys at Cinema West drive Yugos.... :Wink: . Don't you have somrthing good in the warehouse you could sell this guy???
HAHAHA, Mark... [evil]

Unfortunately, all the AW3's and AW35's we have in storage are spoken for, going into all our new builds [Smile]

-Aaron

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Dominic Espinosa
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1172
From: Boulder Creek, CA.
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 07-17-2004 01:56 PM      Profile for Dominic Espinosa   Email Dominic Espinosa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And praise you for not giving us any of those CFS monkeys in our booth [Wink]

I had a problem with a potts platter (similar design) at one of the other theaters I worked at. Along the same lines, the "tires" were hard and slick in a couple spots, I figure something got on there or they were exposed in a couple areas but not others somehow, either way this caused oscilation. It never tossed a print but It did give me a couple scares until they got replaced.

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1492
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-18-2004 12:43 AM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I disagree with Brad concerning aluminum rollers.

Actually aluminum rollers would probably be less expensive tomanufacturer then the plastic. It can take maybe 10 minutes to construct a 3-D solid model on SURFCAM, maybe an 1 1/2 hrs tops to generate a CNC program and set-up the cnc lathe and maybe 2-3 minutes per roller tomanufacturer....probably less time. Sure, the "shot time" of a plastic injection mold can shoot out 24 pieces every 15 seconds or so, but the cost and maintenance of the plastic injection mold and all the set-up regarding plastic injectiomn molding would probably make aluminum a better choice.

Plus, aluminum rollers are soooo much easier to clean, especially when some idiot has gooped Lubriplate all over everything!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17641
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-18-2004 12:48 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Miller
*The aluminum rollers don't do anything. Save your money.
Pay attention, Will. He was asking about what affects the tossing of prints, not what is cheaper to actually manufacture.

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