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Author Topic: Question about soundtrack on King Arthur
Richard Greco
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1180
From: Plant City, FL
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted 07-07-2004 10:32 AM      Profile for Richard Greco   Email Richard Greco   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I was building it up yesterday, at the reel changes I noticed that there was more noise on the soundtrack after the last frame? What is that? I cut my one ID frame and when I rean it it was fine. What was that extra noise on the leader?

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Jim Spohn
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 07-07-2004 11:29 AM      Profile for Jim Spohn   Email Jim Spohn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What do you mean by "noise"?

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Jon Miller
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 973
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-07-2004 12:35 PM      Profile for Jon Miller   Email Jon Miller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Could it be the random assortment of pops and sputters and the odd sync beep normally appearing in the analog track a few seconds after the last frame, but now closer?

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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 07-07-2004 02:02 PM      Profile for Steve Scott   Email Steve Scott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know that somebody here has the exact answer, but aren't those spots of overlap so the reel change is seamless?

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 7907
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-07-2004 02:28 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you're referring to sound "pull-ups," then, yes, all prints (should) have those. This means that a section of the soundtrack from the head of the next reel is repeated on the tail of the previous reel. This is done to accommodate platters or large reels which, otherwise, would have just under one second of silence at each reel change, since the sound is printed ahead of the picture.

The practice actually predates platters and large reels and presumably was intended to accommodate exciter-lamp changeover systems or other sound changeover systems (e.g. Western Electric) which crossfaded the sound from one machine to the other.

Also, all prints should have "sync pops" which correspond with the last number (either "2" or "3") on the leader, and are visible 21 frames before that number when looking at the film.

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1384
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-07-2004 02:45 PM      Profile for Carl Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Carl Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
isn't the pull-up at the head, not the tail? in any case, it isn't used in a platter house, and only the additional sound at the head is used in c/o. perhaps the exciter cross-fading c/o is the reason.

carl

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 808
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 07-07-2004 03:36 PM      Profile for Jeffry L. Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Jeffry L. Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The audio pull-up from the head of the next reel is even more important on platter systems. Without it, the last second of every reel would be silent.

Remember that a 35mm release print's analog optical audio precedes the image by 21 frames. The sound for the reel stops 21 frames before the picture stops.

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1384
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-08-2004 01:46 AM      Profile for Carl Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Carl Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
yes, and the next 21 frames up to the last image have the soundtrack to the next reel (ok so that's the "pull-up"). but even after that the soundtrack will continue for a spell into the black. that will not be heard either in a platter house or a c/o house, unless the audio is cross-faded. or there's a missed changeover.

carl

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 07-08-2004 05:49 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, if you want to make your changeovers more obvious don't bother using any of the sound on the tail leader.

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