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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Simplex oil flow problems

   
Author Topic: Simplex oil flow problems
Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1876
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 06-18-2004 03:56 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been changing the oil in my projectors (model 1060) this week, and on two of them I've been having difficulty getting the oil to flow after I refill them. On these two machines, when I run the motor to check for proper oil flow, there is no oil splashing against the glass, and no oil dripping down the tube into the intermittent. One of them seemed to correct itself the by the next day, but the second one still has the problem. I put enough oil in the machine so that the sight glass on the operator side is about 3/4 full. This should be enough to produce a generous flow of oil down the glass on the non-operator side when the machine is running. What could be the problem here?

In case it helps in diagnosing the problem, I can tell you that when I change the oil, I simply drain the projector and refill it. I know how to remove the cover on the non-operator side and clean the filter screen, and have done so in the past. Currently, however, this is something our company has reserved for the technician, due to problems that have occured in the past from operators removing the cover. Please don't fault me, it is not my decision.

Any help would be appreciated.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 06-18-2004 06:14 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, if they won't let you do that then you will need to call a tech in pronto. Look at the sight glass and see if the oil level drops when the machine is running. If it does then the projector is pulling oil up the tube if not then either the filter is clogged, the tube is clogged or the pump has stopped working for some reason.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16152
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-18-2004 07:12 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree that the oil intske strainer needs to be looked at but I've also seen it take as long as 2 min. for a pump to re-prime itself before you see oil spraying on the window again. But once its re-primed itself it should work just fine.

Mark @ CLACO

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-18-2004 08:47 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Also look for a kink in the tube. Another thing that can and probably will cause issues is the sump tube going to the pump might have a loose compression nut or someone cross threaded it when they removed the sump tube for cleaning. And make sure the entire sump screen is in the oil. Not just 1/2 of it. Those pumps are perfectly capable of sucking nothing. (air, to be more specific).

As you know, the fire shutter gov is the device that throws the oil all over the place. Make sure the oil tube is positioned correctly over the governor. If not, you will not have a good oil spray. I mention this because I have discovered many are not aware of that.

I might add from experience this: Thread the compression nut with your fingers. Don't use a wrench to tighten them until the compression nut is seated. If you have to use a wrench to screw it down, 90% of the time it is cross-threaded. I have cross-thread my share of them until I finally decided not to get in a hurry while working on them. Those devices are incredibly easy to cross-thread without ever knowing it...until it is too late.

Edited for typos and clarity.

[ 06-18-2004, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 06-18-2004 10:50 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is it possible that on this machine, the filter may not be as low as it should, and is not fully immersed in the oil? If this is the case, it will only suck air.

A quick remedy, if you are prohibited from removing the rear cover to check this, is to add a little more oil, although if the level is too high, you may develop leakage problems.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-18-2004 10:54 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yup...better to have a mess on the floor than it is to have a busted projector that just sits there not being capable of doing anything except collecting dust and losing revenue.

Kind of strange. EVERYONE seems to complain about projectors that leak oil. Maybe leaking oil is a good thing after all. When it quits leaking, then there is a serious problem. There is nothing in it to leak out on the floor. [Big Grin] [Wink] [Eek!] .

Looking at it another way. Maybe there would be no reason to change the oil. If it leaks bad enough, there will always be fresh oil in it. [evil]

A 9/16" rag is cheaper than a blown movement.

What is wrong here is you young farts. Your machine drips one drop of oil, and you run yourself into a panic.

Us old Carbon Arc Farts could care less. That's why we have an oil can - and not afraid to use it. [Big Grin]

If you don't like a leaky projector, buy a couple of pounds of kitty litter, a drip pan, and a box of Kotex. So what's the big deal about a leaky projector? There is always Pro's and Cons'.

[ 06-19-2004, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

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Chris Hipp
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1462
From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas)
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted 06-19-2004 12:50 PM      Profile for Chris Hipp   Email Chris Hipp   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
one word of caution, if you do get in there and remove any parts be very careful with the lines, dont try to bend it. If you think you need to bend it then make sure you have extra lines and compression bushings around. I have broken a few myself.

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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-21-2004 02:15 AM      Profile for William Hooper   Author's Homepage   Email William Hooper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How are you guys bending the tubes on those Simplexes? Are you using some wrench-free method? You must have more finesse than I, because the only way I can get the filter out to clean it is to remove the tube with a flare wrench & extract the tube & filter. Doesn't bend anything.

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Don Sneed
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Texas City, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 06-21-2004 02:31 AM      Profile for Don Sneed   Author's Homepage   Email Don Sneed   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You may have to remove the oil pump, dissemble & clean it, only two moving parts, very easy to do, do it before opening, allow yourself 45-minutes if it is your first time, 25-minute after you know how...easy to do, simple fix...Good luck !!

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Dominic Espinosa
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1172
From: Boulder Creek, CA.
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 06-21-2004 11:41 AM      Profile for Dominic Espinosa   Email Dominic Espinosa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know how well maintained your projectors are but I agree, check all the lines, pump, filter, etc.
I've noticed on some Simplex 35's the oil level has to be raised above the recommended ammount in order to circulate properly.
A tech from ACE once told us to just dump oil in until it's almost all the way up the sight glass. I thought it was excessive, but on some it did help.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-21-2004 12:45 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is that machine equipped with a rear sump screen? Or a front one? What kind of projection angle do you have? Is that machine in a drive-in or a theater?

St seems to me if that much oil has to be used, there is definately a problem with the plumbing, especially if the projector is being used for an indoor application.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5198
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-23-2004 04:29 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, you are a pisser. And I agree, what's a little dripping oil between a projectionist and his projector?

But this ole Carbon Arc Fart would like to know -- how does all this crude get into the sealed housing to clog up anything in the first place? I have been running these XLs for a few decades, and while I change oil regularly and inspect the filter, I never find anything that remotely looks like it will clog up anything. Even when I had a few break-away gears strip because of a failure in the soundhead (brass gears ground to bits because of lack of oil in the box whilest the oil indication tube showed a full level -- how's THAT for the perversity of inanimate objects?), I only found a few small bits of a bakelite gear down near the filter, but nothing that I couldn't just pick off.

Other than that kind of an obvious problem, is it common for any part of the pump system to get gummed up on it's own, assuming you are using quality oil?

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-23-2004 04:51 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank, this is just a guess, but I have discovered many locations are using anything form 3-in-1 oil to a mixture of manual transmission gear oil and motor oil. This is the reason I use an oil recommended by the manufacturer. The projectors ran fine for 50 years with that stuff, so that's good enough for me. [Smile]

As many aready know, some oils attack rubber some do not. Some people take the gear cover off these projectors and accidently drop cigar ashes in thye sump. Once I received Simplex oil from a company that I used to work for, and it already had the cigar ashes in it. [Big Grin]

The rubber gears Simplex used to use deteriorated, and all that crap that falls off winds up in the sump for the pump to recirculate. Let's face it....the scheens in the Simplex and Brenkerts would be OK to filter out a bumble bee and a gear tooth or two. But other small crud would probably pass. [Eek!]

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 2948
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 07-26-2004 06:02 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken:

Another thing to check on is that the oil outlet tube on the top is angled correctly so the oil lands on the Governor weights (Older heads with fire shutters) or slinger blade. I have seen a few instances where the oil was just running down the inner casing behind the vertical shaft.

And some of the oil pumps are notoriously fickle. The worst ever were the pumps for the "rock and roll" studio heads. The system of ball check valves never worked worth a damn. [bs]

Finally got past post 13! [beer]

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