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Author Topic: Film & Disc on leader? Joop de Gruiter Film Handler Posts: 33 From: Lund, Sweden Registered: Jul 99 posted 05-27-2004 07:59 AM                     Some weeks ago I was running Sullivans travels (1941), and on the leader it said: sound print film & disc, what does this mean? Was the sound both on the film and on a phonographic disc? In that case it would be nice if the disc would still come with the print. Joop.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 05-27-2004 08:22 AM                        I doubt that a 1941 film would have used the Vitaphone system that used separate phonograph discs, but perhaps the leader masters were never updated in the decade or so since Vitaphone was discontinued in 1933?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaphone http://www.davemackey.com/animation/wb/fieldguide.html http://www.amps.net/newsletters/issue19/19_synch.htm http://www.filmsound.org/film-sound-history/sound1928part1.htm  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-27-2004 08:33 AM                     "Sullivan's Travels" (1941) was a Paramount Pictures release at the time, it's now handled by Universal (USA rights). They were using sound on film at that time.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 05-27-2004 02:24 PM                        The last remaining UK distributor to do so, Warners, stopped supplying Vitaphone discs on 1 April 1933. I presume that they'd been supplying combined optical prints for some years previously and had shipped discs as an option for the remaining theatres which still hadn't installed a reader. I have a photocopy of their ad making the announcement in Kinematograph Weekly (the main exhibition industry trade paper at the time) in a file somewhere: I'll look it out and scan it if I get a moment. The announcement promoted a flood of letters from disgruntled disc theatres, many of which insisted that the discs produced better quality audio than optical sound film. Interesting parallels with the cyan tracks business now...  |  IP: Logged Mark Ogden Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 943 From: Little Falls, N.J. Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-27-2004 06:33 PM                     Just a shot in the dark, but I think point they were trying to get across was: "This is a sound print, it contains both the film AND the sound which until recently was found on the disc, so don't go looking for the disc, cause there ain't any, because this is a sound print, which has BOTH the picture AND the sound, so the disc isn't needed, because what was once on the disc is now on the film". Or something.  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 05-27-2004 07:42 PM                     16mm prints of this title had the same things on them. Sound print film disc. I just assumed that Paramount used the Vitaphone system also. We had a print of The Uninvited that had this on the leader, too.  |  IP: Logged Wayne Keyser Master Film Handler Posts: 272 From: Arlington, Virginia, USA Registered: May 2004 posted 05-27-2004 11:02 PM                     I wish I could see a little more of the leader in the attached picture - entirely aside from a "film"-oriented answer, from a viewpoint of having designed a lot of graphics, that is a VERY modern-looking typeface and layout style (all caps, a good amount - but not TOO much - of letterspacing). I'd find it hard to believe that the type in the photo was generated in the 1940s. Not that this note is a whole lot of help.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 05-28-2004 09:05 AM                       I don't. It looks very art-deco. Btw, it's real. I've run those leaders, too.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 05-28-2004 02:17 PM                        Where exactly is the leader in that picture? What I see looks almost like a giant microchip (an oxymoron, I know. But I am a moron myself). I don't see anything that resembles a film leader. It looks metallic to me.  |  IP: Logged Joop de Gruiter Film Handler Posts: 33 From: Lund, Sweden Registered: Jul 99 posted 05-29-2004 09:30 AM                     The picture is taken through a loupe, I haven't got a scanner yet. Did Paramount Pictures use Vitaphone or simular discs? Can we assume that the lab just still used the same old leaders since Vitaphone wasn't in use anymore by 1941? Joop.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 05-29-2004 05:53 PM                        What is a "loupe"? I don't think we have that word over here (at least I haven't personally obtained it in my vocabulary yet). I look at the picture and I still have no clue what I am looking at. It doesn't look like anything. Inquiring minds wanna know!  |  IP: Logged Dan Lyons Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 698 From: Seal Beach, CA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 05-29-2004 05:59 PM                     quote: Joe Redifer What is a "loupe"? I don't think we have that word over here (at least I haven't personally obtained it in my vocabulary yet). Type of magnifying glass; also handy for checking for hooked sprockets. danny  |  IP: Logged Wayne Keyser Master Film Handler Posts: 272 From: Arlington, Virginia, USA Registered: May 2004 posted 05-29-2004 10:15 PM                     Magnifying glass? What, one of them jeweler's/watchmaker's thingies they stick in their eye ans squint through? Naaaah! A loupe is what you make in the projectore so the filme doesn't breake.  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 05-29-2004 11:52 PM                        Some loupes (these are made by Gaebel): Typical film inspection usage:  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 05-30-2004 02:44 AM                        But what are those brown-ish brick like things around the silver image? This MUST be explained quickly!  |  IP: Logged

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