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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » moving aperture plate (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: moving aperture plate
Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-17-2004 05:39 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi everyone

I need your opinion. I have several Victoria 5 that doesn't costantly change the aperture plate since the mechanism is too hard and the motor cannot move the plate.
First I discovered that projectionists put OIL in the mechanism. The heat of the lamp made a mess. I cleaned everything, the locking mechanism (the one with the spring) is now working and free.
However I have several machine where the problem is not solved. I found that the problem is the locking mechanism, where the little pin enter the "V" on the plate's holder. Seems that this pin makes too strenght when the motor tries to move the plate.

If I remove the spring the plates has no problems. The excessive resistance made by the "pin" is confirmed moving the plate by hand too.

I don't know if the problem is clear. Never happened to me, I'm becoming crazy trying solving this issue.

The entire mechanism is completely free and clean. I didn't put any kind of oil in the mechanism (it always worked to me in this way!) Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

Bye
A

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-17-2004 06:38 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Something may be worn excessively such as a hole that may no longer be concentric. That can cause some binding. Take a look for that type of wear, and take a look for something being sprung.

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-17-2004 06:42 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, I thought too... I have to check better but doesn't seem to me. Seems strange to me that I had a V5 for 5 years with no problem, here the aperture plates is a big issue... What caused this damned problem????

Thank

Bye
A

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 05-17-2004 08:06 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
 -

You mean that when the spring (10-522) is removed, it works OK?

Could there be any damage to the V pin? Could it be bent?

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-18-2004 06:52 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks John for the image!

Yes. The mechanism has no problem changing plate with no spring.

I've fully inspected the mechanism, I can see just a bit of wear on the plate's holder or on the pin.
So today I tried using a bit (just a bit) of abrasiv paper using a squared piece of wood to enter the "V" shaped hole on the aperture plate's holder. Seems to work now, there is no more that resistance when the pin (9V-512) try to exit from the V on the aperture plate's holder (8V-513). I kept this solution for last because I do not like to use abrasive paper on these mechanism but this is my last chance...

I'll let you know my final results let's see if today I can start some show with the right plate!! [Smile] (We check all len's change, don't worry!!)

Thank

A

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2381
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 05-18-2004 08:57 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Besides cleaning up the aperture track you should also check the motor linkage and on some motor drives there is a capacitor in the circuit. The gearbox to the motor may also have problems due to operator abuse. The motor and gearbox is made to come apart for service.

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-18-2004 05:05 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Richard

I didnt' know. I know the importance of that capacitor (and the easy of damaging it opening and closing the carter) but I didn't know that the gearbox could be serviced.

Do you have any suggestion of what should be checked inside? Otherwise I will thinkering with it... [Wink]

What would you consider as "operator abuse"?

Bye!
A

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2381
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 05-18-2004 05:14 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The gear box mates to the drive motor via a cam lock fitting...once apart you can feel if there is any rough spots in the gear box. The box sometimes receives abnormal wear if pulled too agressively when moving the aperture manually. the little red capacitor ( part # 3607105 ), if installed for your type of motor, help boost kick the motor.

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-19-2004 07:41 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
thank you richard!

bye
A

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Phil Blake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 558
From: esperance western australia
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted 06-02-2004 11:16 AM      Profile for Phil Blake   Author's Homepage   Email Phil Blake   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am suffering the same problems , we have 3 vic 5's all brand new and they all have sticky aperture plates , they either move partially or not at all when lens rotates. I have dismantled the gate , plate mechanism all seems to be like new yet the contantly stick .I would imagine the motor and gear box on all 3 should be fine being new so there must be an issue with the movement somewhere that causes the aperture to jam up.

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 06-02-2004 06:38 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Phil

I'm still fighting with this issue. In one of my previous post I wrote that I was going to use abrasive paper on the "V" on the plate's holder because I noted that the cause of the problem is the pin that has some kind of resistance exiting that "V".
Strange, the plates starts working properly after the "cure" but has the same problem after few tests.

Actually perhaps I found a solution. My fools projectionists put some kind of spray oil (like WD40...) on the plate's holder. This oil became sticky and like stone with the hot of the lamp. I cleaned all the mechanisms but I found that a bit of this cooked oil "survived" where the 9V512 (see the photo above) is screwed, I don't know if I'm clear.

I tried to put a bit of High temperature grease, the same that is used into the shutter gear box (just a bit) and my test machine seems to have the problem solved. But I cannot say that this is the solution I said too many times!

Try to disassemble the 9V512 and to clean with some type of product everything. I use white petroleum (don't know if you call it this way)

Since you machine are brand new, did you put some kind of lubricant on the plate's movements? In my experience there should be put nothing on this part of machine.

And, do you use all three aperture plates or just the more external ones? If you use the more internal one, check on the belt side that the plate's mechanism is not touching the roller that prevent the belt to drive out from the shutter gear. If the roller is too low it can touch the plate's mechanism and locking it.

Bye
A

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-04-2004 10:40 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I recently discovered that the behaviour of many V5 to not change plate at lens' change is not limited to the site I was working for. This time the projectors are almost new (1,5 year) and the mainteinance were always well made.
I discovered few machine that sometimes has difficult changing plates. Same problem, the motor does not have the necessary strenght to have the pin exiting from the "V" on the plate. A great resistance can be feel with hand too.

Now I wonder: Cinemeccanica sells projectors all over the world. Is is possibile that this kind of problem is limited to my projectors? [Smile]

Perhaps I make something wrong. Do you use any type of lubricant on the plates? Since the temperature there is very high I always thought that less is better. Perhaps I'm wrong. The lubricant way I wrote before seems to work on the first site but not completely. I've been told that in this case, where plates does not want to change by itself, Cinemeccanica sells a different type of spring, a lighter one.

Has someone suggestions or opinions for me?

Bye
A

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Thomas Jonsson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 215
From: Bromolla, Sweden
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 07-04-2004 02:58 PM      Profile for Thomas Jonsson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Antonio

I´ve had this problem as well. In my case, this was the
problem: the aperture plate with the "V´s" is atached to the moving mechanism with a tiny pin at your end (opposite the
"motor" side). The hole is sometimes just a little to small
to get the plate down all the way. This makes the aperture plate too thick and it won´t move. I made the hole a slightly bigger
with a small drill and that did it.

Thomas

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2381
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 07-04-2004 03:58 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thomas's post was another "fix" we did on the V-5 plates to allow the plate to seat more square to the holder..that with the linkage slop, capacitor on the motor, motor gear box, et cetera......

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-05-2004 07:00 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thomas

Yes, I understand, I had few of them and I fixed them. In some cases the plate was warped...

But this is not my problem.

Richard, I already have the cap on the motor, what do you mean with "linkage slop"?

Just to explain better my problem when a plate is locked, you sometimes cannot move by hand unless you raise the 9V-512 (see the photo above). After that the plate is completely free to move. If I cannot move it by hand I understand why the motor cannot do the same...

Do you use some kind of lubricant in this area?

Thanks for your help

Bye
A

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