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Author Topic: SCRATCHS...HELP!!! Robert Edgecomb Film Handler Posts: 7 From: St. Louis, MO, USA Registered: Mar 2004 posted 04-25-2004 11:01 AM                     I am hoping that someone can help me. I run a 6 booth art house and I have Simplexs in all the booths. It is occurring that in at least 3 of the prints playing there are horizontal (usually alittle diagonal as well) scratches running down the middle of the film. I have no idea what would be causing this. I have a sneaking suspicion it is the lateral guide roller but I honestly don't know. I really hope someone can help. I am doing what I can but I still don't know how to stop it. R.  |  IP: Logged Robert Stawiarski Film Handler Posts: 62 From: MW Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-25-2004 11:29 AM                    Have you checked the take-up roller on your platter system?  |  IP: Logged Robert Edgecomb Film Handler Posts: 7 From: St. Louis, MO, USA Registered: Mar 2004 posted 04-25-2004 11:52 AM                     I have checked all of the rollers to make sure that they never touch the middle of the film (which is where to scratches are, they are only in the middle).  |  IP: Logged Chris Hipp Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1462 From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas) Registered: Jul 2003 posted 04-25-2004 11:55 AM                     Watch the film as it goes onto the take up platter and see if the platter hits the film at any point. Also, watch all rollers during the show, if the film comes off a roller and rides on the side of a spinning roller it will cause lateral scratches.  |  IP: Logged Robert Stawiarski Film Handler Posts: 62 From: MW Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-25-2004 12:01 PM                    Agreed. If the scratches take up most of the width of the film, it is probably due to the film in contact with the takeup platter. If the scratches are in the center and are relatively narrow, it is probably due to riding on the edge of a roller. Sometimes the film will look fine upon starting, but a splice may make it ride a roller (one of the more common places is the top roller on the projector; not the feed roller, but the top roller below the feed roller.)  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: Boulder Creek, CA. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 04-25-2004 12:06 PM                     That certainly sounds like a roller. Also check for debri and such on any guides on your platters centerfeed ( i don't know what kind you have, but Christies like to get filthy right in front of the rollers ). I know this sounds stupid, but...How big are your bottom loops? I had problems with this when a new projectionist made his loops entirely too big and they'd slap the bottom of the case leaving ugly short scratches all over the place. Good luck, let us all know what it was. I know I'm currious.  |  IP: Logged Robert Edgecomb Film Handler Posts: 7 From: St. Louis, MO, USA Registered: Mar 2004 posted 04-25-2004 12:08 PM                     I am off to work now so I will check all of those things. As far as the rollers go, I am not sure how a roller could do that. There are many scratches on a frame. They are horizontal but go down a line in the center. Thanks for your help and I will see what else I can find.  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 04-25-2004 12:11 PM                     Also check for any debris in the gate/trap assembly, as well as the intermittent sprocket.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-25-2004 12:32 PM                     Robert: Do the scratches look like a narrow "drizzle" of slashes in a straight line, like this: \ \ \ \ \ \ About that wide, too? What kind of platters are you using? I had this problem on Strong platters with their cheap little bearing rollers. If the bearings aren't good or rusted (as was the case with this horrid booth I was at) then it could be that the roller isn't spinning as fast as it should, dragging on the film just enough. (You'd hear the roller "buzzing" just a bit) I noticed those rollers aren't bevled inward too well, either. But you said you checked all the rollers, so I'm confused. Don't know if it was this or something else, but replacing that roller made the "drizzle" scratches go away on that house. I see these kinds of scratches on a lot of used prints we get (and reject!) second run. I'm curious as to how they're caused? =TMP=  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 04-25-2004 12:34 PM                    Check for crack in the rubber damping roller on the sound gate. If cracked bad enough they can leave horizontal sinch marks on the middle of the film.  |  IP: Logged Ian Price Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1714 From: Denver, CO Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-25-2004 12:46 PM                     Sounds like a platter scratch to me. I would institute a program whereby the operator must check each roller after they start the film and sign off a sheet that you have done so. Or have the manager check the projectionist's thread after starting. Even our very experienced manager missed a roller on our platter's take-up and Ky caught it and called him back up to correct it. Thankfully no damage was done to the film. You should never walk past a platter without visually checking it.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-25-2004 02:11 PM                     Often it is caused by the ilm riding up on the flange of a roller and the film then folds slightly against the spinning roller leaving the marks all it takes is one roller misthreaded once for it to happen  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-25-2004 04:14 PM                        I agree. Either a "platter scratch" or mispositioned roller. Platter scratches are caused by the rotating takeup platter rubbing across the surface of the film --- be sure the film is properly guided onto the platter without it "flattening out" against the rotating platter surface. Or the film rode up onto the flange of a roller. Check all rollers to be sure they are positioned properly, so the film doesn't tend to ride up on one side.  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 04-25-2004 11:14 PM                    We had a problem with out Strong Alpha platter system where the last roller on the path to the take up platter, while spinning fine, would not swivel freely. So the film would stay on the roller perfectly fine, and the roller would spin perfectly fine, but it always pointed toward the center of the print directly at the edge of the take up ring, and wouldn't swivel out as the print got bigger. This caused the film to start to take a weird twist coming out of that roller on its way to the rest of the print on the take up platter. That twist caused the film to touch - and eventually get scratched by - the take up platter. Keep checking and re-checking that roller while the film is running, but DON'T TOUCH IT! Just watch and see what happens. Especially towards the end of the film. Of course you have to check that roller on all three (or however many disks you have) platters. There aren't many places where something runs perpendicular to the film path across the base side of the film... which is what's required to create a horizontal or diagonal scratch. That's why everyone keeps saying to look there. Good luck, and let us know what you find! Mark  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 04-25-2004 11:28 PM                        Robert, are these scratches happening when/after the films play or is it possible they are being scratched when loading film on the platter from the make-up table? I once found someone was so worried about film riding too high on the center ring that they had dragged it across the edge of the platter loading it and caused the type of scratches you describe. It was only on the prints this specific person had put together.  |  IP: Logged

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