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Author Topic: How long should cue tape be? Richard Greco Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1180 From: Plant City, FL Registered: Nov 2003 posted 03-07-2004 06:43 AM                     My lights are controlled by automation with cue tape. My manager when she builds up a print puts a piece that isusually about 4 1/2 frames long on the beginning and the credits of each film. If I need to change out cue tape on the credits, I usually put one that is 2 frames long. How long should it be? Also, What is the best way to rewind the credits to change out the cue tape. Should I get a MUT and an empty reel? My manager taught me to just unspool the film on the floor till you get to the tape. What is the best way with a minimal turnaround time to change it out?  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 03-07-2004 06:58 AM                        Cues a few sprockets in length are usually more than sufficient. Of course it all depends on the cue detector. Usually one frame length is more than enough though. One benefit to using only a frame length cue (or less) is that if you get the cue tape in frame (not crossing a frame line) it won't pulsate on screen if the edge of the cue ends up on screen. Of course, done right an inboard or outboard cue should never end up on the screen. As for "changing out cues" I first have to ask why? Depending how far in your cues are you might be able to just loosen the film on the platter, without actually taking it off the platter. Once you've loosened off a few layers of the film just pull the film with the cue on it up and away you go. Be careful not to cinch mark the film by pulling it tight when done. Just leave it loose, or carefully wind it back up tight. This is really only useful for a shutdown cue though. If you have to reposition your credit start cue, you're going to have to wind the film on a reel using the MUT. Though, if everybody's paying attention when they build films this should be a pretty rare event.  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-07-2004 07:32 AM                  quote: My manager taught me to just unspool the film on the floor till you get to the tape. A perfect example of film done wrong! If that manager was working for me, he/she wouldn't be! What a dope! >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 03-07-2004 07:53 AM                     I just aquired an old print from the year 1981 that has cue tape almost 6 inches long and totally covering the sprocket area. This shows that FILM DONE WRONG has been happening for a long time. This film obviously jumped off a sprocket at some point. There are several ropes that run across the film image area past this cue. Luckily, there is no perf damage. [ 03-07-2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Bruce McGee ]  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-07-2004 08:09 AM                     If you have a contact type cue reader then your cues should be a little bit longer than the distance between the contact rollers. You want to be sure the conductive tape is spanning the distance between the rollers, then you want a little extra just to be sure. Maybe an inch or so. Of course, if your automation/cue reader needs more than that to be sure you'll pick the cue every time then make it longer. Experimentation/experience is the key. If you have a proximity type cue reader like the FM-35 then the cue can be anywhere from 1/4 inch long on up. I tell my people to make it about one frame long. (4 sprocket holes.) The reasoning behind that is to ensure the cue is read 100% of the time even if it's slightly out of position. It's also easier to see when you go to remove the cues. If you have to change out the cues I'm guessing you have a contact cue reader. Sometimes, if you use cheap tape, they wear out and stop working as well. May I suggest that cleaning the reader every show would be a good practice? While you're at it, do the rest of the projector. JK (I know YOU do it. I'm talking to your manager. PS: Tell your manager that there are about 2 dozen people all areound the world cursing his name right now! May his testicles get caught in a sprocket!  |  IP: Logged Dick Vaughan Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1032 From: Bradford, West Yorkshire, UK Registered: Jul 2000 posted 03-07-2004 08:31 AM                        Richard wrote: My manager when SHE builds up a print puts a piece that isusually about 4 1/2 frames long on the beginning and the credits of each film. Randy , perhaps SHE already got HIS testicles caught  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 03-07-2004 08:41 AM                        quote: testicles get caught in a sprocket! Why do I fear there's a story about that Randy?  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 03-07-2004 10:26 AM                    The 1981 print was probably cued with the old direct contact cue detector in mind that requires an actual electrical contact to be made between rollers by the cue tape. Rather unreliable over the long term. Tape longer than the distance between rollers improves the odds that contact would be made. Also I believe some of the old non-electronic cam timer automations require a cue long enough to move the cam motor out of the dwell position so the cam switch that feeds the cam motor picks up and motors it the rest of the way.  |  IP: Logged Chris Medley Expert Film Handler Posts: 180 From: McKinney, TX, USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 03-07-2004 11:22 AM                        So the general consensus with teh FM-35's is one frame lenght. I tried the 1/4 an inch and the reader often wouldn't read the cue, even with a cleaning. But more than one frame seems like it would freak out the reader, and as has been mentioned, show on the screen if it is out of place  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-07-2004 11:27 AM                     Indeed the FM-35 doesn't really have a built in cue stretcher as does the Kelmar and Eprad detector. The Kelmar stretcher works best in my expereince... I just never have ANY complaints about them at all. It only requires a dot of foil and the detector picks up that dot and makes it a one second pulse. The Eprad does require a longer piece of foil in order to function properly, at least a frame. But it still makes the cue look longer that that. With the FM-35 you get out what you put in so to say plus a little drop out time delay on the internal cueing relay. If Kelmar would just get rid of the film break drop arms they'd really have something! Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-07-2004 12:18 PM                     quote: Dick Vaughan: Randy , perhaps SHE already got HIS testicles caught... Well, OK then... May she GROW some testicles and THEN have them ripped off by a sprocket! quote: Daryl C. W. O'Shea: Why do I fear there's a story about that Randy? No, there isn't a story but I'll make one up it it'll make you happy!  |  IP: Logged Chris Hipp Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1462 From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas) Registered: Jul 2003 posted 03-07-2004 01:00 PM                     If I have to replace a cue I pull the ring and basically "collapse" the print so that I will have it loose on the last reel and put the new cue on. Then I replace the ring in the center to straighten out the print. I have not had any problems as far as damaging a print or a platter problem after doing so, but I wouldnt do it this way unless your platters feed smoothly or unless you have a Film-Tech Platter Safety Ring. In other words, if your platters suck then do it another way, but no, it should not be would onto the floor. If you have to wind it off then get a CLEAN plastic tub and wind it into that, but make sure that the film doesnt touch the edges of the box and make sure it isnt scratching on the platter deck. Last thing, place your cues evenly and neatly and it will help them to last longer, if you are going through them alot, I would have a tech checkout your sprockets.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-07-2004 01:32 PM                     The FAR easier way is to be there when the lights up cue SHOULD be and then walk over to the platter and insert a few 4 inch cores into the roll as the film is taking up where the cue should be. Then after the show is over, pop the cores out (be careful so you don't scratch the film...always pull one of the center ones out first and always use 3 or more) and then you can effortlessly lift that few feet out of the film roll and apply your cue. Alternatively, use the mut and a 2000 foot reel and simply back it off onto the reel. Anything else and you are at risk of film damage.  |  IP: Logged Richard Greco Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1180 From: Plant City, FL Registered: Nov 2003 posted 03-07-2004 01:59 PM                     Thanks for the advice. I do notice that the credits DO seem more scratched after it is done my managers way.  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-07-2004 04:55 PM                     We can get away with a horizontal (across the frame line) cue of only a couple of millimetres wide. We cut it in lengths to suit. Works well on scope prints and are well hidden from view if we can find a scene change shortly before the credits start. We can then add a delay to the house preset activation and adjust it if necessary (for example:to coincide with a music change or rolling credits start).  |  IP: Logged

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