my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Framing handle "set," but still out of frame (Page 1)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Author Topic: Framing handle "set," but still out of frame Ken Lackner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1907 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 02-24-2004 11:58 AM                     Simplex 1060. I will always level the framing handle (and set the intermittent, in case you think I forgot about that), but some of our projectors will not thread perfectly in frame like this. I will have to rotate the framing handle a few degreesn (some times as much as 20 or 30 degrees) in order to get the picture to be in frame. Isn't the word FRAME supposed to be perfectly horizontal when you thread? What would cause this to happen? My theater also has Century projectors. I think the model is SA. Is the word FRAME supposed to be horizontal on these framing knobs as well? (This is my first time working with Centurys, so I don't know too much about them.)  |  IP: Logged Chris Hipp Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1462 From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas) Registered: Jul 2003 posted 02-24-2004 12:09 PM                     What you need to do is frame it on screen then PUSH in on the handle and turn it until the FRAME is level, make sure that you have enough room to frame the picture both ways from the point that it is SET.  |  IP: Logged Gary Crawford Expert Film Handler Posts: 200 From: Neptune NJ USA Registered: Nov 2003 posted 02-24-2004 12:54 PM                     In theory yes, the word "frame" should be horizontal. Newer equipment allows the knobs to be reset. However, older machines (like my Super Simplexs that are 16 years older than I am) don't have that centering feature. So my #1 has the word "frame" where it's supposed to be but my #2 says "frame" at about a 10 o'clock - 4 o'clock angle. You get used to it I guess. My #2's shutter knob is upside down, so mote it be.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 02-24-2004 01:03 PM                     The word FRAME may not always be perfectly horizontal, even after pushing it in and turning it. I've seen where a projector did have FRAME horizontal, but after the intermittent was changed, it was at a slight angle. The person installing the intermittent must check it. This applies to both Simplexes and Centurys. I made this stick-on label because some Simplex framing knobs did not line up. It was meant for use where the framing knob must be adjusted when going from flat to scope (adjustable top masking.)  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-24-2004 01:10 PM                        It also depends on how the aperture plates are cut. If the plates are slightly off, the film will need to be framed to compensate. Same for houses which use top masking for scope; the picture will need to be reframed after the masking adjustment.  |  IP: Logged Gary Crawford Expert Film Handler Posts: 200 From: Neptune NJ USA Registered: Nov 2003 posted 02-24-2004 01:29 PM                     Framing flat-to-scope and back isn't too far off on my machines, my problem is side-to-side. Not bad, just a half turn on the front knob under the lamps. The machines have settled a tad over the years and I'm used to adjusting them when we change aspect. We used to actually have to re-level the #2 machine when we changed as the scope image was slightly crooked. A quicker fix was to re-aim the scope lens in its collar, "twisting" the image back to square. Keep it simple.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 02-24-2004 09:34 PM                    As Scott mentions a lot depends on how the apeture is set up. None of my machines framing knobs are perfectly horizontal. They are 1060's  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 02-24-2004 10:07 PM                     How hard is it on those machines to set them up so that flat and scope are centred on-screen without it being necessary to reframe? Am I to believe that there are actually situations where this is normal and acceptable? I would have deemed this to be an instance of "film done wrong." No?  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-24-2004 10:13 PM                        Like mosts machines, if you've only got a single lens holder, there's not much you can do to shim the lens. Of course, that's what adjustable tables are for. Anybody who uses the framing mechanism for centering each format should be shot in the head.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 02-24-2004 10:42 PM                     I had assumed turrets. Adjustable table? Is that a joke?  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-24-2004 11:15 PM                     Manny, if these ********* would do away with the movable top masking only and if the aperature was cut properly, the problem would be solved provided, of course, the popcorn salesperson button puncher could properly thread the projector. However, that would be asking for the impossible.  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 02-24-2004 11:43 PM                  quote: Anybody who uses the framing mechanism for centering each format should be shot in the head. Holy Smokes, Daryl! You sure are getting rambunctious for a "thick skinned Canadian!" From that statement, I would have thought you lived in Los Angeles! >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-24-2004 11:57 PM                        Joke? What's so funny? If you don't have a common optical centre line between all formats and can't shim the lenses, you'd better be investing in an adjustable lamphouse table. There's no excuse for projecting off axis and affecting the lighting of the picture.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-25-2004 04:57 AM                        Agreed with Daryl, but I've never seen a theatre with top-only masking that didn't require a framing adjustment with every format change. Usually one quickly learns exactly how much adjustment is necessary and can then make the adjustment before the picture even hits the screen. Top masking does suck. Brad claims that artists' tape can be carefully applied to the lens before it goes in the lens collar to tilt it enough to make framing adjustments unnecessary. I haven't had the chance to try this, but it sounds reasonable. At the Williamsburg Theatre (see picture gallery), we had to do a framing adjustment to go from 1.85 to scope and a tilt adjustment to go from either format to 1.33. Fun! They've since reworked the masking system for side masking only. BTW, the current-model Ballantyne bases don't have an easy tilt adjustment. The only pedestals that have this seem to be the Simplex (LL-1, LL-2) and Century models, neither of which (as far as I know) is in current production.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-25-2004 07:56 PM                        There's got to be at least 75 screens that I've personally run with top masking that don't require any framing adjustments between formats. All of theses screens have their lenses shimmed (or otherwise adjusted) in turrets. Maybe I'm more open to adjustable tables after running changeovers with single lens holders for more than half my life (so far). Heck, I ran one screen with a car jack adjustable console for a few weeks a few years ago. It worked a LOT better than off centre framing.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.