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Topic: Edit Splices

Edward Jurich
Master Film Handler

Posts: 305
From: Las Vegas USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 02-23-2004 11:08 AM

I screened a print last night to check it for an upcoming show and found that the editing splices between scene changes were showing up on the screen. This is a scope print so frame lines are thin. We crop off a fair amount of top and bottom of picture but these splices are really noticable. Even with careful framing a few are still noticable.
What I'm wondering is why the splice lines are white. I'd assume it's the negative being assembled and spliced. So wouldn't the positive print have dark lines where the gap in the splice is?

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Christian Appelt
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 505
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 02-23-2004 12:39 PM

No. The splice is a little thicker than the rest of the film strip, and the film base is chemically welded. This results in a "minus density", the printing light is refracted.

There are splicers for 8mm and 16mm (i.e. Hamann, Geyer, Arri) that use not a straight overlap but make two wedges. These splices are less visible, but the greater mechanical force applied to 35mm in printing does not allow for this design.

There used to be a special narrower CinemaScope negative splice, but I believe it is not recommended for safety purposes any more.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-23-2004 01:38 PM

Christian is correct: the film edges of splices refract light passing through the spliced negative during printing, leaving an unexposed line across the width of the film. Same reason that base-side scratches on a negative element show up as white on the final print. Sometimes a bit of splicing cement "oozes" outside the overlap area, showing up on the screen.

SMPTE Recommended Practice RP111 is very specific about the dimensions of cement splices, including the overlap that should not fall into the projectable image area (0.825 x 0.690 inches for 2.39:1 "scope"). It's really a matter of the splicer used, and the negative cutter's splicing technique. Yes, increasing the overlap of a cement splice increases the reliability and reduces the risk of the splice breaking, but with more likelihood it will be seen on the screen.

One way to eliminate any splices being seen is to edit the negative into two rolls with alternating scenes and black leader, and use "zero-cut" editing:

http://www.acvl.org/manual/3c.htm#Zero%20cuts

quote:
Zero cuts

Another method of achieving invisible splices in printing from A and B rolls is to use the checkerboard technique, but extend each end of each scene at least two frames. When rolls so prepared are placed in a synchronizer, there would be a four-frame overlap at the head and tail of each scene. Rolls prepared in this manner must be printed on a printer that will make scene changes by means of a shutter that rapidly opens or closes. Not all laboratories are equipped to print rolls prepared for zero cut, so check with your lab. Zero cuts made on a 16mm continuous release printer usually appear as less than one frame dissolves. Zero cuts made on 16mm step contact or optical printer will appear as a perfect straight cut.

quote:
Black leader

It is recommended that only black leader be used between scenes. To insure that the leader is opaque, it is suggested that the black leader be made by fully exposing a positive stock and developing in a positive bath to a minimum density of 3.00. Specify this minimum density when ordering black leader from your lab. If the black leader is old, it is wise to check it for shrinkage. Use black leader for 16mm negative A and B rolls and for 35mm negative rolls prepared for the checkerboard technique.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 02-23-2004 06:45 PM

If the film in question is Passion you may find it difficult to get some of the neg splices out of the picture entirely if showing the specified 'Scope height.

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Dominic Case
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 131
From: Sydney NSW Australia
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 02-24-2004 01:41 AM

Hammann slicers do exist in 35mm and are commonly but not universally used. They make a chamfered or bevelled splice which is a lot thinner than a traditional overlap splice and so are ideal for anamorphic productions where the frame line is minimal. They fall very safely within SMPTE RP111 that John refers to. I guess they weren't used on this show (whatever it is).

Conventional splices come in two widths, with the narrower ones just falling within RP111 specs for 'scope negatives. Excessive cement spread on this type of splice would cause the problem you describe, or the use of a normal width splicer (however good the splices). An over-height aperture plate would also cause this problem.

Are the splices a problem throughout or do they change from reel to reel?

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Edward Jurich
Master Film Handler

Posts: 305
From: Las Vegas USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 02-24-2004 11:03 AM

The film in question is in fact "Passion". This is the first scope print, including old classic prints, that is showing negative splices at this theater.

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Dean Kollet
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 591
From: Florida State University
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 02-24-2004 12:20 PM

we have a very bad visible splice in the first reel of "Passion" too...it's absolutely horrible, guess I'm going to have to dig it out tonight....can't the processing companies do anything about this?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-24-2004 12:39 PM

Dean Kollet asked:

quote:
...can't the processing companies do anything about this?

The issue is the splicer and technique used to cut the original negative, which is not usually done by the labs. Wet printing (which is usually used to make the master positive anyway) will help hide some minor splice-related issues like oozing cement. But if all the negative splices were made poorly, or with overlap violating SMPTE RP111, not much can be done. Again, techniques (checkerboard cutting and use of "zero cut" printing) exist to completely eliminate the negative splices from showing on the screen.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 02-24-2004 12:42 PM

I screened Passion last night. At first the splices were showing up at the bottom of the screen so I asked someone to lower the framing a nose hair (hey, I didn't want to miss any of the movie [Smile]

). Then they showed up at the top. I figured he just lowered it too much. I hope I'll be able to find just the right spot that gets rid of these splices on screen.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-24-2004 12:44 PM

How common is zero-cut printing? It sounds like a great idea for a number of reasons, particularly with scope prints and probably for 16mm as well (which is normally cut as A&B rolls).

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-24-2004 01:39 PM

More links to "zero cut" printing:

http://www.duart.com/film_blowup.html

http://www.hi-beam.net/fw/fw15/0963.html

http://www.filmlab.co.za/tecnical_info.htm

http://www.duke.edu/web/freewater/AlphaRateCard3.pdf

The method can be used with both 16mm and 35mm productions.

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Christian Appelt
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 505
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 02-24-2004 05:19 PM

quote:
Hammann slicers do exist in 35mm and are commonly but not universally used. They make a chamfered or bevelled splice which is a lot thinner than a traditional overlap splice and so are ideal for anamorphic productions where the frame line is minimal.

Dominic, Hammann made two different types. The first is called in German "Filmhobel", which means "film plane". It takes off a small strip to create a kind of step. Both film ends welded together still are thicker than the rest of the film.

The second type is called "Filmspalter", which means "film splitter". The splitter's knife does not take off a piece of film, it cuts a wedge. Two wedges overlapping makes for a almost invisible splice especially in the small formats.

Negative cutters told me that the second type was not used for 35mm because the stress on that super narrow would be too great.
I will try to find a picture.

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Dominic Case
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 131
From: Sydney NSW Australia
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 02-25-2004 07:09 PM

quote:
Negative cutters told me that the second type was not used for 35mm because the stress on that super narrow would be too great.

There was always concern that the thinner type of traditional overlap splice (traditionally used for anamorphic negs) was also too weak. However, the majority of neg cutters that I know of (including Australia, UK, USA, Canada, and so far as I hear, in Germany) do now use the Hammann "cleaver" splicer which makes a mitred cut and splice. It's a good strong splice that doesn't fall apart if it's properly made! This type of splice is much narrower than the frame line, even on anamorphic productions.

I guess (does anyone actually know???) that "The Passion..." was not spliced this way.

And as an aside, the Digital Intermediate process eliminates all splicing problems [Wink]

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 02-25-2004 07:45 PM

Mr. Case... are you the author of "Motion Picture Film Processing"? If so, I'm a big fan! I've had a first edition of that book since 1985, and have constantly referred to it over the years. It's very well written and is one of my all-time favorites! In fact, when I got out of the service end of the business and liquidated my library, it is one of the books I kept.
[Smile]

Welcome to the forums!

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Dominic Case
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 131
From: Sydney NSW Australia
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 02-25-2004 08:25 PM

quote:
Mr. Case... are you the author of "Motion Picture Film Processing"?

The very same. Thanks for the comments. [thumbsup]

Sadly it's now out of print. List etiquette would probably regard it as self-advertising if I mentioned the name of my newer book, but it's in the same vein and covers a similar range of topics. Funnily enough I had a conversation about Hammann splicers with the translator of the soon-to-be-published German edition of the book.

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