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Author Topic: Rolling loop VistaVision? Stewart Anderson Expert Film Handler Posts: 105 From: Sandy, Utah /United States of America Registered: Aug 2003 posted 01-30-2004 01:10 PM                        I once heard that rolling loop was originally made in 35mm (I assume this meant 8 perf 35mm (VistaVision )). Does anyone know where to find pictures of this machine?  |  IP: Logged Jeff Taylor Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 601 From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY Registered: Apr 2000 posted 01-30-2004 01:19 PM                     The best selection is a complete section in the American Widescreen Museum describing every aspect of VistaVision--for my money probably the best quasi-widescreen/high res film system ever devised. There's also a picture of one Mark G. built here on Film Tech.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-30-2004 01:38 PM                     No it was built for four 4perf verticle pull down  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 01-30-2004 03:27 PM                        The original paper is "The Rolling Loop -- A New Concept of Film Transport" by P.R.W. Jones, SMPTE Journal, January 1968, Volume 77, pages 21-23. Bill Shaw's (IMAX) papers are in the September 1970 SMPTE Journal, Volume 79.  |  IP: Logged Stewart Anderson Expert Film Handler Posts: 105 From: Sandy, Utah /United States of America Registered: Aug 2003 posted 01-30-2004 03:51 PM                        So it used regular 35mm (4 perf vertical), but was it really rolling loop (with a vertical rotor)? Or was it linear (vertical) loop? In any case, it sounds very interesting, do any of you have a picture of this machine  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 01-30-2004 04:00 PM                        As Gordon notes, Jones' original paper discusses 35mm 4-perf, and speaks as if the film is moving in a downward direction. The paper had drawings, but no photos. The paper clearly leave open the application to other film formats and frame rates, for both cameras and projectors. The pages of the SMPTE Journal are full of motion picture and television history being made! http://www.smpte.org/membership/individual/ http://www.smpte.org/smpte_store/journals/ A student membership is only $35 per year: http://www.smpte.org/membership/individual/join_now/  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-30-2004 05:28 PM                     I also heard there was one built but who knows by who.....Perhaps Pukesfilm didm theyn did convert one of the original "Production VV" machines to electronic intermittent. Stewart, you could be the first to build one now that the basic patent has expired. Neil could offer a Poor Mans horizontal format! My machine runs fine as does the camera which I drag out now and then when I can afford to run some Eastman stock through it. If you want to see mine in action stop by the shop sometime. I leave it setup just off the screening room. I have an original reel of dailies of some takes of the "Ten Commandments" and some dailies from a Martin And Lewis film. Contrary to how other VV machines behave mine is extremely gentle on film due to the use of 32 tooth Positrol sprockets and a loop stabilizer on the intermittent. I've run these old dailies for people hundreds of times and the film is still in perfect shape and runs fine in spite of its being very brittle. Perhaps its time to Filmguard it for posterity. Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-30-2004 07:25 PM                     Bill Shaw had the original 4 perf vertical hand cranked rolling loop prototype around for years don't know where it went  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 01-30-2004 07:34 PM                    Rolling loop for 35mm was a solution looking for a problem. Given the number of runs that can be had via conventional equipment (look at the mileage Disney gets at the theme parks) there really isn't much point. Lest anyone be confused by Mark's post, his VistaVision projector is not a rolling loop but a conventional machine ingeniously converted from a regular Century including overcoming the major problem that simply turning a machine on its side and making it do 8-perf has the film running the wrong way for the VV format--the intermittent would have to push the film through the gate. There are machines out there like that and, frankly, they suck. Mark's runs film the right way.  |  IP: Logged Bob Brown Expert Film Handler Posts: 146 From: Grand Rapids, MI Registered: Apr 2002 posted 01-30-2004 07:40 PM                        [ 02-02-2004, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Bob Brown ]  |  IP: Logged Bob Brown Expert Film Handler Posts: 146 From: Grand Rapids, MI Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-02-2004 12:47 AM                        [ 02-02-2004, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Bob Brown ]  |  IP: Logged Dick Vaughan Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1032 From: Bradford, West Yorkshire, UK Registered: Jul 2000 posted 02-02-2004 04:02 AM                        Bob The photo you posted isn't of the prototype its the "polished" second model. The prototype was on display for many years at the IMAX offices. It is considerably smaller and looked less finished It was returned to be put on display in Ron Jones' native land about 10 years ago as I recall.  |  IP: Logged Stewart Anderson Expert Film Handler Posts: 105 From: Sandy, Utah /United States of America Registered: Aug 2003 posted 02-03-2004 11:57 AM                        Hey Bob, I would still like to see that picture...if you still have it handy...  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-03-2004 06:45 PM                     So where did the picture go? Did Imax threaten him for posting it? Mark  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-03-2004 07:35 PM                        Like anyone at IMAX Corp these days would care.  |  IP: Logged

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