my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Boom mics in flat films (Page 1)

This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5

Author Topic: Boom mics in flat films Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-25-2003 08:19 PM                     Noticed this in the Review forum. quote: Lots of scenes with boom mikes in them too! ...and then this... quote: The Boom mics are really low! Even the slightest missframe will reveal them. Yet another reason NOT to shoot flat films! If a filmmaker just HAS to release in flat, they should hard matte the prints to prevent this sort of thing. We all pretty much agree that the industry has reached a low point in presentation. The filmmakers shooting flat should realize this and matte the prints to ensure this sort of nonsense does not happen. General survey...in the "typical" megaplex ran by teenagers, what do you think the percentage is that understand when running a flat film that just because there is not a visible frame line in the image does not mean it is in frame?  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-25-2003 08:36 PM                     Don't compromise hire reel projectionists that know how to frame  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-25-2003 08:44 PM                     If you feel that your projectionists don't have a full appreciation of the importance of framing flat films for proper composition, you could always point out the mic boom in a film like "Honey" to make the point in a different way. BTW Gordon I'm in full agreement with your post -- That's my new year's resolution for 2004.  |  IP: Logged Bryan Fournier Film Handler Posts: 61 From: Greensboro, NC Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-26-2003 03:25 AM                     Assuming the flat plates are cut properly and lenses are of the correct size more frequent running of the RP-40 and framing to specs should reduce the problem. Is it safe to assume most projectionists/operators do this? With the cost of RP-40 being somewhat expensive I'll bet there are some booths out there operating with out one frame of the stuff.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-26-2003 01:52 PM                     RP-40 (or PA-35) is NOT properly centered vertically and should not be used to determine proper framing. It's fine for lens alignment and cutting plates, but when the job is done the framing control must be racked a little bit to achieve a proper centering job. This has been discussed before in the archives.  |  IP: Logged Bryan Fournier Film Handler Posts: 61 From: Greensboro, NC Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-26-2003 04:36 PM                     I think using RP-40 (PA-35) as a reference when framing is an acceptable practice. When changing lenses in a constant width auditoria, after framing knob is used and when a feature presentation changes it can be useful. I think the problems with boom mics entering the viewing area is caused mainly by improperly set masking (flat), overcut aperture plate (flat), use of framing knob one show and not reseting (with RP-40) for the next showing. If RP-40 (PA-35) is not used, what are you using as a reference? The last flat picture? You say The RP-40 is not perfectly vertically centered. Maybe some adjustment is required, but I still feel it is usful as a starting point.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-26-2003 04:38 PM                     Better to get a flat trailer that is "letterboxed" to scope and make a loop out of the green band. 99% of the time these are dead on perfectly centered and it's a disposable item, not one that costs mega $$$.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-26-2003 08:32 PM                     35PA is correct for the location of the frame lines in reference to the perferoration One is compromising by using a trailer as it has been printed in a compromised form  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-26-2003 10:28 PM                     Gordo, we've been over this before. One batch of SMPTE PA-35 always lines up with another batch of PA-35, but never ever does any PA-35 line up with what the labs are actually sending out. (Now this is the paragraph you need to read carefully.) Of course, 99.9% of all matted mainstream trailers and features do magically match each other. Odd how that works, eh? Makes you wonder, are the billions of prints that all match up with each other correct, or is it that one test film that is correct? So if you want to claim that the PA-35 film is accurate and every print out there is wrong, fine. I prefer to frame my presentations on what is correct for that print. Framing on the PA-35 when you are going to run one of these "incorrectly printed" films is stupid, for you will be running the show out of frame. Life can be tough that way.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-26-2003 10:35 PM                     I think John will be able to provide the exact dimensions but the 446 mark is specified in relation to the edge of a perf. That is the guage to reference against Printer slip will allow a slight shift from printer to printer which is why the hard matte is supposed to be larger than 446 high  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-26-2003 10:52 PM                     "Printer slip" still = out of frame presentation.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 12-27-2003 12:13 AM                    Obviously one must deal with real world conditions when setting framing for actual showings but it seems pretty clear to me that the middle of the frame is supposed to be a point exactly between two perfs. So if the 35PA has that and the billions of prints don't then the test film is correct and the billions of prints are indeed "wrong" in the sense of being non-compliant with the standard. But the projectionist has to be "compliant" with the film being projected. If the prints are all pretty much consistant with themselves and there is more afoot than just bi-directional printing then it would be interesting to get a lab guy to explain just what standard they are following. Maybe they line up to old green bands from other labs!  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 12-27-2003 03:06 AM                        No not the 35-PA/RP40 framing issue again! Do not frame using that test film as your guide. I once centered ALL of the framing knobs in our 16 screen complex (this was many years ago) and locked the knobs down. All was well. One morning our tech came in (John) and I told him what I did. He asked if I used RP40 to do the centering. I said "no". He wanted to show me how to do it properly, so he asked that I unlock one of the projectors. He threaded up the RP40 (or I did, doesn't matter) and he centered to that image and told me to lock it back down and I did. That very day we started getting complaints about the image being off center vertically. I switched it back the nest day and the complaints stopped.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-27-2003 07:42 AM                     quote: Better to get a flat trailer that is "letterboxed" to scope and make a loop out of the green band. 99% of the time these are dead on perfectly centered and it's a disposable item, not one that costs mega $$$. This is exactly how I do it. 35-PA may be perfectly framed but, in my experience, it has never ever lined up with an actual print. It's silly to insist on setting framing with that film. I guarantee that it will lead to "film done wrong."  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 12-27-2003 09:19 AM                    Oh there's little doubt there is a disagreement noticeable on tightly matted films and one may presume the rest are wrong too and we just don't notice it. The question is why. Would it matter if 35PA was printed on KS perfed stock? I don't think we have a lab guy here but maybe if I bring this up on r.a.m.t. someone will answer.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.