Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » F.A.C.T. piracy overkill in UK (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: F.A.C.T. piracy overkill in UK
Howard Johnson
Film Handler

Posts: 87
From: Felpham , West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-23-2003 03:39 AM      Profile for Howard Johnson   Email Howard Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As well as having the two silent warnings on front of the censor certificate regarding piracy and camcorders etc. threatening legal action we now have in the UK a sound F.A.C.T. commercial on front of the Pearl & Dean/ Carlton advert reel. This bleats on about the film and video industry being ruined and threatens our patrons with the police etc. FOR HEAVENS SAKE!!! People are paying £4-6 each for their ticket as well as paying high prices for refreshments in multiplexes. Can we not leave people alone to enjoy the film. Virtually all the piracy happens to studio and lab copies before they are even released. A shaky camcorder copy of the film with noisy people round will hardly make them a fortune.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-23-2003 04:01 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
So it's reached the UK now. Welcome to our hell.

 |  IP: Logged

Liam Utley
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Australia
Registered: Oct 2003


 - posted 12-23-2003 06:23 AM      Profile for Liam Utley     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Do they give you any warnings not to remove the tag?

 |  IP: Logged

Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 12-23-2003 06:42 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I ran it a couple of weeks ago, it was part of the 'Pearl & Dean' (adverts). I think it's just an advert, like any other, and I very much doubt that you could just remove any advert because you didn't feel like showing it. The companies who use cinema advertising pay to have their adverts shown; they wouldn't be too happy if they were left out. Of course, any cinema can choose not to show advertising, and accept the loss of revenue, but they can't pick and choose.

I think the only circumstances where you can remove an advert is if the reel as supplied contains materialnot allowed for the age rating of the film. There used to be a warning notice from P+D to remove tobacco adverts for example, when these were still show in cinemas, if younger rated films were being shown.

 |  IP: Logged

Dan Harris
Film Handler

Posts: 86
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted 12-23-2003 06:52 AM      Profile for Dan Harris   Email Dan Harris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't mind the simple titles and warning attached to the feature, but the FACT advert at the front of ad reels is very bad, and is getting more laughs than anything else. In any case, for the average film, there are hadly any people in when the ad's start, it would have made far more sense to put it at the end!

There was a note in with my Carlton reels last week instructing us not to remove them.

On a side note, I recently heard a rumour that the new Odeon trailer disclaimer titles (with the "Turn your phones off" thing) will include a warning similar to that on the FACT logo. So, only three times during a show the customer needs to be told this!!

 |  IP: Logged

Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 12-23-2003 10:32 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yesterday I received a newsletter from the National Film Theatre. Included in it was the following:

Recording Equipment.

With the increase in the variety of equipment available for capturing still and moving images, and given the sensitivity of the film companies that we deal with towards piracy, we are having to be more strict regarding the taking of recording equipment into the auditoria. Members need to be aware that anyone seen or caught taking such equipment into the auditoria will not be allowed to attend the screening or event. Unfortunately, we do not have the facilities to be able to look after such equipment for you and I would ask, therefore, that Members leave audio recorders, still and moving image cameras at home.

You should also be aware that, at the request of the film companies, you may be subject to a bag search.

I often carry a camera with me, and this restriction would also seem to cover some mobile 'phones, PDAs and other, similar devices people may well have every reason to carry with them. Saying leave them at home is just not good enough, somebody may travel up to London to do various things during the day, for which it may well be perfectly reasonable, or even necessary, for them to carry a camera or other, now proscribed equipment, which has never been a problem in the past, if carried in a pocket or bag, and not used in the auditoria. Are they seriously suggesting that under these circumstances, the person should take the item home, which may well be an hour or two's journey away, and then come out again to see the film?

My membership expires shortly; since this will make it difficult for me to attend screenings, I will probably not renew, and will explain the reasons why, and ask them to pass this information on to the film companies.

 |  IP: Logged

Andy Muirhead
Master Film Handler

Posts: 323
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 12-23-2003 08:01 PM      Profile for Andy Muirhead   Email Andy Muirhead   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This situation is getting increasingly ridiculous. It's been said before, I'm sure it's worth saying again - The majority of piracy is not happening at cinema's.. It's all happening way before we get our hands on our prints. It's the studio's that have the problem.

As for coded title prints, that's a joke that's just not funny anymore. I could maybe tolerate it if we recieved notification that 'your print of LOTR will be arriving as X'. It doesn't happen. It's very time wasting and annoying to check every obscure titled print that arrives, only to find that it really is an obscure art house flick for a cinema you book for, rather than LOTR etc.

I remove the FACT warning from EVERY print that comes into my cinema. I have to, we are CEA members, as are most of the cinemas in the UK.

Basically the CEA (Cinema Exhibitors Association) have a deal with Orange (mobile comms company) to run an Ad for Orange at the end of their members trailers. The contract is that this MUST be the last ad/trailer before the start of the feature. This includes attached trailers and (even if it is AFTER the BBFC certificate) the FACT anti-piracy snipe. So any attached trailers must be removed etc. Only exception so far has been Warners for Matrix 3, who included a scope Orange ad attached to their print for CEA members. Even then the FACT snipe was after the Ad, but I assume It was cleared by the CEA as we recieved confirmation that this was ok.

 |  IP: Logged

Dan Harris
Film Handler

Posts: 86
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted 12-24-2003 05:00 AM      Profile for Dan Harris   Email Dan Harris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andy,

Do you know if Orange freely supply 'scope versions of the trailers? Our technical office keep a supply, but I'm wondering if they would just be able to send us a batch of 'scope versions.

We were told to re-use the 'scope Orange supplied with Matrix 3 for LOTR 3, no matter that we were still playing Matrix [Confused]

 |  IP: Logged

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 12-24-2003 09:01 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I ran it a couple of weeks ago, it was part of the 'Pearl & Dean' (adverts). I think it's just an advert, like any other, and I very much doubt that you could just remove any advert because you didn't feel like showing it.
You can if it clashes with the feature certificate. When I worked for City Screen it was company policy to extract all the adverts from a given reel which had a higher certificate than the feature it was being shown before. On the P & D or Carlton chitty we would place an asterisk by the appropriate entries and write at the bottom 'Not shown - higher certificate than feature.' However I'd guess that, annoyingly, this FACT propaganda is probably U-cert and therefore this isn't an option.

As for the NFT newsletter, I suspect and hope that this was a covering of asses exercise rather than a signalling of any serious intent to search members as they enter an auditorium. Even allowing for the fact that (IMHO) its programming has gone more mainstream and downhill in the last decade or so (the rot started when I left [Wink] ), 90% of what they show would be of no interest whatsoever to any self-respecting pirate. After all, who would want to furtively video The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp in the MOMI cinema when you can buy it on DVD for £5.99?

 |  IP: Logged

Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 12-24-2003 10:02 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Leo wrote:

quote:

You can if it clashes with the feature certificate. ...
...On the P & D or Carlton chitty we would place an asterisk by the appropriate entries and write at the bottom 'Not shown - higher certificate than feature.

That's basically what I said:

quote:

I think the only circumstances where you can remove an advert is if the reel as supplied contains material not allowed for the age rating of the film. There used to be a warning notice from P+D to remove tobacco adverts for example, when these were still show in cinemas, if younger rated films were being shown.

As to the NFT thing, I have no intention of pirating any film, and if I did I would find a better way of doing it than pointing a camera at a cinema screen. Des anybody really do this? The couple of pirate copies I've seen were of rather good quality, and obviously not done this way. They were also proper pressed DVDs, which suggests a large scale operaton. These things are openly on sale at computer fairs, car boot sales etc., yet they seem to do nothing about this; do they really want to stop piracy, if so, why don't they do something about this?

I'm getting rather fed up with places which won't let you take various things in. Now if it was something large that would be understandable; if I turned up at the NFT carrying a roll of carpet, I would expect them to turn me away, but a small still camera in a coat pocket or bag, are they serious? I recently had to go to a certain large computer shop; they wouldn't let me in because I was carrying a bag of shopping from another shop. They told me to leave the bag in my car - I don't have one. The store security person declined to look after my bag for me whie I was in the store, so I took my custom elsewhere. Am I really expected to take each bag of shopping home before going to the next shop? Maybe we should be expected to remove all our clothing before entering a shop, in case we slip something into a pocket.

I was running a film once at a modern place, with the entrance to the projection box indoors, just outside the auditorium. Before the show there was a knock on the projection room door, and a young woman was standing there. She reached into her bag, produced a VHS tape, and asked if I would mind running off a copy of the film during the show for her friend, who wasn't able to come. Right, I thought, I'll just go and find a Cintel Mk.3 telecine from somewhere, and loop the film out through that before it reaches the take-up spool! [Roll Eyes] She was actually being serious, she really thought it was technically possible, and here would be nothing wrong with doing it.

Any more 70mm shows cming up at York, I still haven't managed to get to one.

 |  IP: Logged

Howard Johnson
Film Handler

Posts: 87
From: Felpham , West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-24-2003 02:12 PM      Profile for Howard Johnson   Email Howard Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I made up "Peter Pan" yesterday and it contained a letter from the renter ordering me not to remove the FACT notice in front of the censor. I immediately binned the letter followed by the FACT notice!!

 |  IP: Logged

Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 12-24-2003 02:36 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In Italy too since september all distibutors made their own anti-piracy tag in front of the film. Now they have standardized it with a "nice" one (better than the Fox advise: 45 seconds of law articles fixed-full screen......).

I know that this decision come from the fact that a movie has been pirated BEFORE it came to the theater.

These tags cannot do anything other than annoying the paying customers. At least the last tag is not so brutal like the other ones... [Smile]

Bye
A

 |  IP: Logged

Liam Utley
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Australia
Registered: Oct 2003


 - posted 12-24-2003 05:12 PM      Profile for Liam Utley     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So far we don't have anti-piracy tags, maybe its because generally get films after most other countries, but i'm guessing it will only be a matter of time.

 |  IP: Logged

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 12-24-2003 05:29 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Des anybody really do this? The couple of pirate copies I've seen were of rather good quality, and obviously not done this way. They were also proper pressed DVDs, which suggests a large scale operaton. These things are openly on sale at computer fairs, car boot sales etc., yet they seem to do nothing about this; do they really want to stop piracy, if so, why don't they do something about this?
Agreed entirely: the real problem are organised gangs (which, AFAIK, are based mainly in the Far East) which do have Ranks and Spirits. How they get their hands on the film prints I don't know: I guess that the CAP code is there because Hollywood would dearly love to find out. Of course there are instances of people trying to video things in cinemas for subsequent small-scale distribution, but I can't see anyone trying it at an arthouse venue such as the NFT. As far as that notice is concerned I can think of two possible explanations: (i) that the management want to be seen to be taking the issue seriously, and (ii) because what they're really worried about is the possibility of people videoing special events such as Guardian lectures and introductions to screenings by well-known personalities. In any case I suspect the letter is a case of going through the motions: unless you turn up with a camcorder slung round your neck, I really can't see them searching you, somehow.

 |  IP: Logged

Andy Muirhead
Master Film Handler

Posts: 323
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 12-24-2003 06:54 PM      Profile for Andy Muirhead   Email Andy Muirhead   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Howard, Snap! Both are in the bin! It's a strange situation, surely the distro's are aware, why cant they sort something out a la Matrix.

quote:
Do you know if Orange freely supply 'scope versions of the trailers?
Dan, I don't know. I'm sure they would, it's only a matter of who to contact, after all it's all in their benefit.

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.