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Author Topic: Threading Projectors- top/bottom or bottom/top (revisited) Stephen Woodward Film Handler Posts: 4 From: North Yarmouth, Maine USA Registered: Dec 2003 posted 12-14-2003 11:19 PM                     Hi all. Glad to come on board to be an active member in discussion. My thought concerns what is "right" proceedure for threading a projector. Both styles have their own merits and loyal followers. Lately many having been jumping on the bottom to top threading bandwagon, unfortumately some people take it to extreme. Most people I have known for years in our local area have always threaded top to bottom as has been the practice forever. Seemed logical to me, film flows in that direction and gravity goes there too. I have worked with Motiographs, Brinkerts,Simplexes and Centurys and each worked just fine top to bottom. I now work for a large chain that that doesn't have projectionists, they are now "assistant managers". THey also have a certification program with many levels. Hypothetically ,no one works a booth until minimum level 1 training. I've got over 7 yrs solid projectionist experience with many as head projectionist. I am very fussy about doing it well. I have also developed a film trough system that eliminates the argument of "film touching the floor", also the trough protects the tailend of the film and scratches in the rating near the end of film are mostly eliminated. I don't believe that any one way is the only acceptable way to thread. I would think that the projectionist focus should be on show quality and consistancy not on being forced to do it one way over the other. I am curious what others views are on this topic.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-15-2003 12:13 AM                     Simple, a film "trough" will get just as dirty as the floor does. If keeping the trough clean is the goal, why not just keep that part of the floor clean? Seems like a wasted effort to me. There are two EASY ways of keeping the leader off of the floor: #1 Thread from bottom up. (This method is also quicker) #2 Clip the film to the edge of the projector with a clothespin (some people stick it in the holdback sprocket instead of using a clothespin), then thread down normally. Either way, the leader never hits the floor and both are professional ways of running a booth. Setting up and maintaining a trough would be more of a hassle than just using a clothespin for those set in their ways to thread down.  |  IP: Logged Bryan Fournier Film Handler Posts: 61 From: Greensboro, NC Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-15-2003 12:20 AM                     I have always threaded up top to bottom. That is the way I was taught and seems the most natural way to due it. I understand the argument about the leader touching the floor and how threading up bottom to top can help avoid that, but if your booth is clean and you run a film cleaner (with Film-Guard of course)especially when mounted on the platter collum (ie. Christie AW3) that should be a minimal problem. Can you explain in more detail about how your trough works?  |  IP: Logged David Favel Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 764 From: Ashburton, New Zealand Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-15-2003 01:42 AM                     I thread intermittant to top, then to bottom. However when I have finished winding on to takeup, turn off the platter. The takeup arm has enough leeway to thread, then turn the platter back on.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Woodward Film Handler Posts: 4 From: North Yarmouth, Maine USA Registered: Dec 2003 posted 12-15-2003 01:49 AM                     Okay Bryan. What I did was look for a surface that would be clean and easy to monitor just to make sure it didn't get dirty or oily. I found that Rain-go gutter worked great. Its sold at Ace Hardware stores and is white vinyl with special slick plastic coating in its belly to help wash leaves and debris down it (when on a house). I took and cut a 10 ft piece in half and then attached 2 by 4 blocks to each end to raise it to cradle the flow of the film from the projector to the platter tree. The film when under tension misses the sides and bottom by more then 1 inch and it never touches anything while in motion. I have Xetron consoles and Christie platters(AW3) and Century turret heads and sound. The end by the console is attached to the edge of the bottom plate with industrial velcro. The other end sits bare block to floor with reference marks drawn on floor for position. The neat thing is its clean, white and very visible and helps bring your attention to the film crossing near the floor area. Less likely to accidentally trip over the film. It "breaks away" easily so as not to be a hazard to staff if accidentally kicked. The gutter cuts on the ends for a smooth rounded edge and I attach the gutter to the blocks with deck screws in ss shields so no sharp or rough surface could ever catch the film. I"ll try and attach a couple pics on another post. I've used them for couple months now and the $5.75 total cost per is nice. I have a couple other tricks in my thread up process that gives me just enough leader to pull down to thread the head without having a bunch touch the floor at my feet. When I am pulling the film around the head from the top roller its easy to lay the leader into the trough and then start the threading. One gain is I don't have the tail of actual film drag across the floor at drop anymore and no more scratched up ratings at the end of film.The way I do it, I don't have to bump or rotate the motor after thread up. The start of dark leader is right at timedown for on screen (its the distance from the tower to the aperature for count down. The trough being on the outer edge of the console keeps it out of the path of dripping oil or debris from the head area. Trough starts a few inches to the side of the bottom return roller and stops just before the bottom return roller on the platter tower/tree. Film drop down on the Chrisie AW3 also seems more controlled now and stays in the rollers at drop.  |  IP: Logged Jeff Klump Film Handler Posts: 22 From: Austin, Texas, USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 12-15-2003 02:25 AM                    I was taught to thread top to bottom, but then trained myself to do it the other way. I find it faster to do as well as easier on the film to do it bottom to top. Still, I'm the only projectionist in the booth i work at that does it. I've tried to pull others towards my band wagon, but no takers yet. I guess rveryone is to set on their ways.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-15-2003 05:25 AM                        the trough sounds good to the extent that you are good about keeping it clean. have you tried putting a lid on it that flips in place once you've threaded? then there's virtually no opportunity for dust to get in there after your morning cleaning. what i'd worry about is other projectionists not being as rigorous about cleaning, but that's a concern with any system. carl  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 12-15-2003 08:00 AM                        I used to thread top to bottom forever. I was trained that way, but fortunately I didn't believe that just because that's the way I learned that it was the best way. I started threading bottom to top, and while it took a short time to get used to, my threading is quicker and far more accurate. Plus the first thing that shows on the screen is cleaner. Think about it: First set the intermittent right where it needs to be. You pull the film to engage the take up platter FIRST, and then pull the film to the holdback sprocket. Then thread UP, pulling more film from the payout deck as you go. It is so much easier it is not even funny. It's WAY more natural, and you thread with consistent loop sizes each and every time. When threading top to bottom, you'll usually have to go back and adjust a loop size or two. That' a waste of time. I was able to try it a new way. Are you? And don't just try it once and say "Arg I'm not used to this I can't handle it I quit!". I've never seen anyone who threaded bottom up want to thread top down ever again. I forced a bunch of projectionists who were used to threadin top down to thread bottom up, and now they teach others to thread bottom up. Anyone who takes pride in their work will want to o it the best way, and this is the best way, hands down. If you disagree, you are wrong.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 12-15-2003 08:35 AM                     Joe, if you are having difficulty setting consistent loops regardless of threading direction, perhaps more traing is needed or there are dexterity issues.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 12-15-2003 08:46 AM                        Perhaps you misread what I wrote. I said threading bottom up provides consistent loop sizes each and every time. Where did I write that I was having trouble with my loop sizes? I was saying that many people have to adjust back or forward a sprocket or two when threading top to bottom since it is less efficient. I love people stuck in their old ways, thinking it is the best way because "that's how they've always done it".  |  IP: Logged David L Parlier Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Franklin, NC, U.S.A. Registered: Oct 2003 posted 12-15-2003 08:48 AM                        I would now have to agree that threading bottom to top is the way to go. I had been originally taught to thread a projector from top to bottom and did it that way for years. Upon learning that there just might be a better way to thread a projector I gave the bottom to top method a shot. Yes, it did seem a little awkward at first but after a few times it seems like the natural way to thread the projector. After learning how to thread bottom to top properly I gave a lesson to my projection staff and told them to use this method effective immediately. There was some fussing about threading this way but they soon found the benefits of bottom to top. quote: I would think that the projectionist focus should be on show quality and consistancy not on being forced to do it one way over the other. Yes, the focus of the projectionist should be on film quality and consistency, and I found threading bottom to top increased both of these.  |  IP: Logged Jason Burroughs Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 654 From: Allen, TX Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-15-2003 09:35 AM                     Like Joe, I was initially trained threading top to bottom. When I first made the switch to bottom to top threading was awkward (old habbits die hard) and temporarily slower. When I got the hang of it, it was acutally faster than top down, the leader stayed cleaner, didn't get as mangled, also loop size was EXACTLY the same each and every time. Now the few times where I HAD to thread top down for one reason or annother was very awkward and slow. Its really a matter of what you're used to.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-15-2003 10:36 AM                     I thread from the intermitent opposite directions  |  IP: Logged Chris Hipp Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1462 From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas) Registered: Jul 2003 posted 12-15-2003 12:23 PM                     A few benefits that I have noticed other than keeping the leader off the floor: If you thread top to bottom and then pull on the leader from the projector to engage the take up platter there are some other negative effects. If the take up is not calibrated just right then the platter will spin more than it needs to and creates tom uch tension in the take up rollers and leader. (I can speak only for Strong platters as that is all I have used) Thus causing the takeup carraige rollers to become loose and damaging your clear leader. The above results in 1. wasted time on platter maintenence, 2. wasted money on damaged leader. Also, when the tension builds up it may pull the bottom roller (going back fromt he projector to the platter) out of alignment and SCRATCH the print. That is the main reason I thread and teach others to thread bottom to top, not som uch to keep the leader off the floor, which I try my best to do.  |  IP: Logged William T. Parr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 823 From: Cedar Park, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 12-15-2003 12:34 PM                     The Strong Platters are the problem in your case Chris. The elevator does not have even enough travel in it to keep from Slamming at the top end no matter how fast you take the slack out of it. On the other hand, Platers that have a great deal of travel in the take up mechinism do not have this problem, ie Christie AW 3 and Speco LP270's come to mind real quick. Possibly the Kinoton ST200 platters might have enough play to keep from slamming the take up arm and rollers, but I have never seen one in person so I can not tell you exactly how far that particular arms traveles in its movement.  |  IP: Logged

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