Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Double-threading a projector? (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Double-threading a projector?
David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 12-05-2003 04:29 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From the entertainment section of today's Eugene Register-Guard (no link available to this story):

"Experimental filmmakers Sandra Gibson and Luis Recoder project images from the floor, thread film through the same projector twice, superimpose images on top of each other, make use of dust, scratches, and hairs on film, and expose raw color stock under varying light conditions."

Thread film through the same projector twice? [Confused] Somehow this presentation doesn't sound consistent with Film Done Right. [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-05-2003 04:56 PM      Profile for Christopher Seo   Email Christopher Seo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are they actually threading up unexposed raw stock with the dirty, scratched film, bipack style? Seems like fogging would be a problem, in a regular projector. Unless that's a separate project of theirs....

If I ever had that much free time on my hands, I'd consider trying to hand-draw animation onto blank film.

On the other hand, my coworker who's a film major tells me he's seen films which consisted of people coloring on blank stock, pasting little bits of dead flies, etc.

 |  IP: Logged

John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 12-05-2003 05:16 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think they mean they run the same film through the camera twice.

Joe, I'm sure, will tell us that you should never run a piece of film through the projector twice; after the first show, it's scratched-up too much to be seen by the audience ever again. [Frown]

--jhawk

 |  IP: Logged

Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-05-2003 05:19 PM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's like speed reading except for film. You can watch a movie in half the time.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-05-2003 05:56 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Back eeons ago, we used to overlap two pieces of Super 8mm films, each with a marker running from one edge to the other, crossing in the middle. When projected, the effect was a wipe to black and then a wipe back into the next shot. [Razz]

 |  IP: Logged

Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-05-2003 06:25 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
If I ever had that much free time on my hands, I'd consider trying to hand-draw animation onto blank film
.

You should watch some of the films of Norman McLaren, especially his SHORT AND SUITE and BEGONE DULL CARE in which he did just that -- hand-painted on the film to the jazz score by Dave Brubeck. He was my hero when I was in college, not only because I thought his stuff was spectacular, but also because he was a god for the programmer of any cinema because he was a incredibly prolific filmmaker of original and very creative shorts. You could play any of his stuff before a feature if you were building a program of cartoons, shorts and main feature. His NEIGHBORS was a live-action short; well, kind of live action -- since he pixilated the film by cutting out frames to create a strange, cartoon-like action. This was always a huge hit with the college crowd no matter how many times I booked it during the anti-war Vietnam era as it made a pretty obvious anti-war statement. And those are just a few....the guy turned out so many shorts that you could almost say he was a one man short subject department unto himself. A lot of his films were award-winners and coproduced by the National Film Board of Canada; The NFBC -- another staple of the film programmer -- they always had tons of great stuff to book. They may still have some of his works in their library, if they still have a rental department.

I loved McLaren's stuff so much that I even tried my hand a few years later at the same thing. My results were not exactly the award-winning work that his was, but it was lots of fun. The difficult thing was getting raw stock. You would think that would be inexpensive....oh contrare. I also found it difficult to find the right paint -- it as to be totally transparent and has to adhere to the celluloid. I "choreographed" my painting to music by the Moody Blues. The music was the best thing. And mine was in CinemaScope! Not because I actually painted it with that in mind, but hey, I was the projectionist as well as the filmmaker so CinemaScope it was. [Wink]

If you get some free time, by all means try it....it was lots of fun. And just remember, no matter how it turns out, a college audience will sit there and watch it if you pick good music. I must say, it sure is rewarding showing something you've created to an audience, captive as they may be, of 6 or 7 hundred!

 |  IP: Logged

David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 12-05-2003 06:40 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I bet jhawk has it right: They probably mean camera, not projector.

Joe Blow to projectionist: "So, what kind of camera do you guys use here?" [Roll Eyes]

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1605
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 12-05-2003 07:40 PM      Profile for Mark Lensenmayer   Email Mark Lensenmayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just from a quick look, I think they mean rethread through the same projector. This Recoder guy does performance art with a 35mm projector.

One VERY interesting listing of his work. This is playing one engagement in the San Francisco area.

quote:

Performative Cinema

MASSETT’S BEAM + WETGATE + RECODER + LONG +

A cautionary against the dictatorship of the mall platters, Tim Massett champions the projectionist as an active creative agent and endangered species. Included in his doc’s world debut are clips of Chicago’s James Bond, Austin’s Luke Savisky, Havana arc-operators, performance footage from past OC Projectorama shows, AND documentation of WetGate, who also appear live tonight! Peter Conheim, Steven Dye, and Owen O’Toole play 16mm loops on their Graflexes as cinema concrete compositions. ALSO “performing the projector” is the wünderkind from El Sobrante (and NYC), Luis Recoder. PLUS Kent Long’s double-projection, and an Osram bulb ad.

Too bad they didn't come to Film-Tech for help in doing that one!

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 12-06-2003 12:32 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Try bi-packing your 35PA/RP40 loop with another film running reel to reel. Interesting way to observe image geometry.

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-06-2003 01:44 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If they mean camera, why do they say project images from the floor?

Sounds like film done right to me.

 |  IP: Logged

Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 12-06-2003 02:46 AM      Profile for Carl Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Carl Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
they do mean projector. i've seen it done in 16, not sure about 35. i've seen some of recoder's and gibson's work and talked to them. a couple weeks ago recoder had a show at the pacific film archive where he experimented with the imaging capabilities of the projector itself, with and without the aid of film.

naturally, you wouldn't want to double up films that you don't want to damage. it's all about the effect, and introducing an element of performance, and not about permanence.

carl

 |  IP: Logged

Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 12-06-2003 11:33 AM      Profile for Thomas Procyk   Email Thomas Procyk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
If I ever had that much free time on my hands, I'd consider trying to hand-draw animation onto blank film.
Done that! I took some black film and scratched stuff into it, then projected it. The result was a 5 second movie that took about an hour of time to "draw" and the result was the first-ever film from CatBastard Entertainment, "Stickman gets punched in face!" [Smile]

=TMP=

 |  IP: Logged

Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-06-2003 01:34 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Think Stan Brackage.

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-06-2003 01:39 PM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sure projector is correct. I have met Luis Recoder and saw one of his shows last year. He plays with the projector, multiple projections and the role of the projectionist quite a bit in his programs. It was a really interesting show.

On the subject of hand painted films, I have to recommend Stan Brakhage as well. Criterion recently released a two disc set of some of his films.

 |  IP: Logged

David Graham Rose
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 187
From: Cambridge, UK
Registered: Sep 2002


 - posted 12-06-2003 01:50 PM      Profile for David Graham Rose   Email David Graham Rose   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings All from a Festive Cambridge;

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Performative Cinema

MASSETT’S BEAM + WETGATE + RECODER + LONG +

A cautionary against the dictatorship of the mall platters, Tim Massett champions the projectionist as an active creative agent and endangered species. Included in his doc’s world debut are clips of Chicago’s James Bond, Austin’s Luke Savisky, Havana arc-operators, performance footage from past OC Projectorama shows, AND documentation of WetGate, who also appear live tonight! Peter Conheim, Steven Dye, and Owen O’Toole play 16mm loops on their Graflexes as cinema concrete compositions. ALSO “performing the projector” is the wünderkind from El Sobrante (and NYC), Luis Recoder. PLUS Kent Long’s double-projection, and an Osram bulb ad.

What is it that causes some people to lose all senblence of reality and take the persona of a complete and utter undergraduate. It is behaviour such as this I expect from the Faculty of Art, from which no doubt Messrs Conheim, Dye and Tool (rather an appropriate name I thought)hail. There is no such thing as Performative Cinema. Simple as this; you either go to see a film (or movie) or show it. There is nothing else. They are not there for analysis in degree driven depths of drivel, they are there to be enjoyed, as is the art of showing film.

Can anyone tell me what is clever about showing pieces of 16mm with scratches? Go to any multiplex in the UK and you can enjoy 35mm film with scratches.

Yours from a department with 3 DP70's

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.