my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » CLEOPATRA. (Page 1)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Author Topic: CLEOPATRA. Frank Aston Film Handler Posts: 54 From: Albrighton, Shropshire, UK Registered: May 2000 posted 11-25-2003 05:52 PM                     Forgive me my preoccupation in this area. I've just been watching the Special Edition DVD of the above. The "20th Century Fox" logo followed by "20th Century Fox Presents" appeared during the closing bars of the overture. Then there is a fade-out followed by the start of the Main Credit Titles. Does anyone know/remember if this was the case during the original theatrical release either in 35/70 mm? I'd be most grateful for any recollections. Kind regards, Frank.  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 11-26-2003 11:40 AM                     Yes. At least in the 35mm mag stereo print I saw in 1976.  |  IP: Logged Frank Aston Film Handler Posts: 54 From: Albrighton, Shropshire, UK Registered: May 2000 posted 11-26-2003 11:49 AM                     Many thanks Paul, Do you have any thoughts or memories of special "road show" type presentation for this type of production? Cheers, Frank.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 11-26-2003 04:17 PM                        I have had the good fortune to see all of the road show releases in the late forties until the early seventies. If my memory is correct, I think the last one was for "TORA!TORA!TORA! in 1970. There might have been one or two more others but I am not sure. Some of the earlier ones were "DUAL IN THE SUN", "SAMSON & DELILAH", IVANHOE","QUO VADIS", "THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH" and many others in the forties and early fifties. I still have fond recollections of all of the 70mm road show releases and "CLEOPATRA" was one of them. I saw it in 70mm Todd-AO at the Kuhio in Honolulu and the opening was exactly as presented on the DVD. Because Hawaii was not considered a major market, many films played as road show attractions in 35mm and mono sound here despite the fact the theatres was set up for four track mag. FIDDLER ON THE ROOF", WEST SIDE STORY", "LAWRENCE OF ARABIA", "EXODUS", "SPARTACUS" are few that come to mind. "LAWRENCE OF ARABIA" and "WEST SIDE STORY" played later in 70mm many times here as revival showing, however. A Road Show attraction was treated like a stage presentation where one can purchase tickets in advance at ticket outlets that sell concert and regular live stage presentations. Tickets were also available at a special window at the theatre playing the film. You can reserve a seat and the exact show time weeks or even a month or two before the start of the engagement. The Kuhio, and later the Cinerama and the Kapahulu were Honolulu's road show venues. The Kuhio and the Kapahulu did not have a curtain when they put in a scope screen but the Cinerama did. It was cool to listen to the overture with the curtain closed and have it slowly open when the studio logo flashed on the screen. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-30-2003 09:36 AM                        Frank, I'll post a definative answer for you shortly -- I have access to a roadshow 4 trk mag print. I'll check it out for you. the other Frank PS -- you really like this turkey?  |  IP: Logged Frank Aston Film Handler Posts: 54 From: Albrighton, Shropshire, UK Registered: May 2000 posted 11-30-2003 02:03 PM                     Hi Frank and other kind contributors to this topic. Frank. I DO like Cleopatra although I appreciate that it's seriously flawed. Generally though, I think the quality of the writing, with one or two glaring exceptions, was good for this type of movie. Also, I think Rex Harrison is extremely good as Julius Ceasar and Richard Burton, although inconsequential in the first half, comes into his own in the second. I'm rather fond of Alex north's score too. Are the Overture and Intermission music intact on your print? Kind regards, The lesser of the two Franks.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Jonsson Expert Film Handler Posts: 216 From: Bromolla, Sweden Registered: Sep 2003 posted 11-30-2003 03:06 PM                       I saw Cleopatra at a 70mm film festival at the Royal in Malmoe (Sweden) a couple of years ago. I liked the film, though perhaps it was a little over-long. Alex North´s music is great, so is his score for Spartacus. If I remember it right, every second reel had OK color and every second was faded, and so was Carol Reed´s "Oliver!" Too bad film-makers of today aren´t interested in making Road-Show versions at least of their biggest films. Imagine Lord of the Rings Trilogy with overtures and intermission. But I guess those days are gone. Too bad, it was REALLY something SPECIAL. Thomas  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 11-30-2003 04:06 PM                     quote: I have access to a roadshow 4 trk mag print. Wasn't this only roadshowed in Todd-AO? In it's world premiere 4 hour and week later 3:45 (approximate) cut? I believe the 35mm 4-track general release prints ran around 3:10-3:15. This was the version I saw, and the music did indeed lead into the Fox logo as I stated above.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-01-2003 05:40 AM                        Paul, I am assuming that "roadshow" means a print that has the overture, intermission, entr'acte and exit music intact, not necessarily that it is identical to the cut as per the original premiere version. Many films opened in longer cuts but were then edited and played roadshow engagements in the shorter versions -- 2001 comes to mind. Even though cuts were made after the initial opening, the slightly shorter versions played roadshow engagements most everywhere else before moving to the subruns sans the intermission and other material. Many times the cuts were made while the opening roadshow enagement was still playing its initial key cities. Sometimes the scores outshine the film -- I too love the North score as I do the Elmer Bernstein score for THE TEN COMMANDMENTS and Newman score for THE ROBE....it's just that watching these overblown epic melodramas is much to much to suffer just to hear the scores. Better to get the CD and listen to the 60 minutes of music, sans the torture of having to sit through the actual film. Frank  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 12-01-2003 10:11 AM                     Frank, I noted above that Cleopatra WAS cut during its roadshow, as were a number of movies. But in many cases, movies retained their overtures, intermissons, etc in ths standard release versions. In fact, some non-roadshows had overtures as well (Scrooge, Cromwell come to mind). Cleopatra essentially had to roadshow cuts. The world premiere at approx 4 hours (available now on DVD, previously on LD sans overture,entracte,exit music, VHS WITH overture,entracte, exit music - go figure). The film was then cut to around 3 hours, 40 minutes for the rest of the roadshow engagements. These prints were 70mm Todd-AO (6-track mag). For general release, the film was cut to around 3 hrs. 10-15 minutes. The mag/optic prints included Overture,entracte and exit music (which may or not have been cut of by individual theateres). However, these were 35mm "scope" prints, and shouldn't be considered "Roadshow" prints. A roadshow is as Claude mentioned above, not whether a  |  IP: Logged John McConnel Expert Film Handler Posts: 118 From: Okmulgee, OK USA Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-01-2003 08:01 PM                        I saw CLEOPATRA during its roadshow run at the Rivoli in New York, and it seemed as if it were 8 hours long. It was only 4 seats from a sellout, and the only seats available were on the front row beside the left-hand wall. The screen was quite large, and those seats actually should have been removed. It took neck craning and twisting to see the center of the picture. The uncomfortableness made it seem as if it were never going to end. I was sore when the movie was over! About the only thing I remember is the scene of the jewel hanging down Elizabeth Taylor's cleavage. This isn't related to running time, but a Greek (nationality, that is) friend of mine told me that the Fox studio didn't have enough cash to complete CLEOPATRA, and the Greek owners of a California theatre circuit provided the financing to finish it.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-02-2003 07:51 AM                        quote: This isn't related to running time, but a Greek (nationality, that is) friend of mine told me that the Fox studio didn't have enough cash to complete CLEOPATRA, and the Greek owners of a California theatre circuit provided the financing to finish it. Are you sure that story didn't evolve from the actual involvement of Spyros Skouras, Chairman of 20th Century Fox when Cleopatra got green-lighted?: http://www.foxhome.com/cleopatra/cleopatra_btsmaking.htm http://dvdscan.com/cleopatra.htm http://www.waldorfconference.com/skouras.html  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 12-02-2003 08:08 AM                     During that time 20th Century Fox's president was Spyros P. Skouras. His brother was president of Fox West Coast Theatres chain, Charles P. Skouras.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-02-2003 08:17 AM                        Thanks. So there may be a Greek exhibitor connection afterall?  |  IP: Logged Thomas Hauerslev Master Film Handler Posts: 451 From: Copenhagen, Denmark Registered: Aug 2000 posted 12-03-2003 03:21 AM                        George P. Skouras (another brother) co-founded MAGNA Theatre Corporation  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.