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Author Topic: Looking to improve a bad house Richard Greco Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1180 From: Plant City, FL Registered: Nov 2003 posted 11-19-2003 07:56 PM                     Hey guys, I'm fairly new in the film handling profession (only 1 month). I have read multiple articles and posts relating to running a better show. My problem is that it seems that my manager has taught me ways differently from what I have seen here. First off, let me tell you about the equipment that we use. It is a small 8-plex with 3 DTS theatres. We use Century "SA" model projectors, Speco Platters, Strong Power Supplys, and I think Xenolite lamp houses. My typical procedure for threading is... 1)Remove the center ring 2)Place the ring on the take-up platter 3)Push the payout button on the payout platter 4)Thread through the rollers 5)Bypass the projector (The platters are all on the left of the projectors) 6)Thread through the takeup rollers to the take up platter 7)Thread the projector 8)Press the takeup button on the appropriate platter. My problem with this is when I thread to bypass the projector, The leader 9/10 times lays on the floor. Any ideas on how to improve my threading? Second, My manager rarely lets me build, when she does though, We never use gloves and if we need to rewind, we do it on another MUT. I'm not sure if this is right or not. It seems that we seem to have a problem with rollers rubbing on film during operation. I move them, but the end up vibrating right back. I also notice on the screen during some fils that there is a ghost of the credits for example right at the top of the screen. Any ideas on how to alleviate this problem? Last question. I had a copy of Looney Tunes get a brainwrap in the credits due to severe static build up pulling layers of film into the brain. Any ideas on how to help this? Also, since I am new, I don't have much experience with fixing brainwraps, Any Suggestions? One More Thing, I did make a rookie mistake and I think my print of Radio was threaded wrong. I know this because I got a few complaints from customers about the sound being scratchy. I go inspect the film before the next show. Sure enough, Under every sprocket, through 80% of the film there are tiny perforations right on the soundtrack. Is this a fixable error or is the film ruined? Should I not worry about getting a new film since it leaves next Tuesday? Thank You. I joined this forum because I am like all of you, I am fascinated with film handling and projection.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 11-19-2003 08:19 PM                    First of all welcome. If you're bypassing the projector then does that not eliminate the desire to pull off a big quantity of film with which to thread the takeup side? Don't you go from payout over various platter rollers, over to the upper projector arm roller, down to the lower, back to the platter, over various rollers and then to the takeup deck? At what point are you putting film on the floor? Personally, I use a platter only when I have to which is maybe once a year. (Running a screening room, I get the fun and efficiency of 20 minute changeovers. Nothing like turning a print over to a waiting courier 30 seconds after a show ends.)  |  IP: Logged Ron Lacheur Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 650 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2002 posted 11-19-2003 08:27 PM                     The leader should NEVER touch the floor. See threading tips in the Tips section. It's demonstrated on Christie equipment, but it should give you an idea on how to do it properly. If there is damage on the soundtrack it is permanent and there is no fix unless you get a new print.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-19-2003 08:27 PM                     If the film is damaged with sprocket teeth marks there is nothing that can be done to repair it. It's damaged forever. Whoever it is that's threading the projector needs to make DAMN sure the thing is right before hitthing that start button. If there's a bad splice, the film can "jump the track" and do the same thing. Careful splicing is key. Checking the film every 10-20 minutes is another good way to minimize the damage. Had somebody checked the projector like they are supposed to this problem might have been nipped in the bud. Possibly, only one reel would have been damaged. One problem with film that's damaged like that is that it won't wind up right on the platter. The film often gets "spongy" on the platter and winds up all wonky-like. You are more prone to further damage when this happens. If you have a good rewind bench, you MIGHT be able to break the film down onto large reels and wind it back and forth 3 or 4 times to flatten out the film a bit. It may or may not work. Just be careful! You don't want to make it worse! If it works you can save yourself some possible damage in the future. If it doesn't you haven't lost anything but a little time. The only REAL way to fix it is to replace the print. You should be careful when threading not to get film on the floor if you can help it. The way you thread, although not wrong per se, could be improved. You'll hear people on this site tell you to thread the projector from the bottom up so you don't get film on the floor. If you can learn that, all's the better. If not, just be careful and don't get film on the floor. It'll take time but you'll learn. You ought to have a rewind bench in your booth. If you do use it! Shortcuts will only get you into trouble in the long run. The all-time BEST way to build up a print is on the rewind bench. Do you have some really large (6,000 foot) film reels? Build the film up onto those and then rewind. Reel the film from the large reels onto the platter. Done well, you will be able to build the film up in less time than doing in reel-by-reel from the make up table. Even the crankiest managers like things that save time like that! The bonus is that there is less risk of damaging the film or getting it dirty. Always a good thing! If you have film gloves use them. They aren't that expensive and they'll save you a lot of trouble with dirty film in the future. If your manager is cheap they CAN be washed! (I can hear the screaming already!) If you buy the heavier, good quality film gloves instead of the cheap flimsy ones you can wash them in the washing machine on the gentle cycle using a "clean rinsing" laundry soap like "Tide Free" or "Ivory Snow". Truthfully, it's easier to just use them once and toss them but if you must, it's doable. Finally: Static... Two words... FILM GUARD! (Okay it's one word but, what the hell! )  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-19-2003 08:28 PM                        Don't forget threading step 0a) remove projector gate and clean it and trap; step 0b) replace gate; and step 0c) clean sprockets using a toothbrush. The streaking effect during the credits is known as "shutter ghosting" and can be fixed by properly timing the shutter. Unless your Centurys are farily new, there should be a knob on the front of the machine toward the top and near the lens (opposite side from the focus knob) labelled "shutter." This is the shutter timing adjustment. Turn the knob until theh ghosting goes away (don't turn too far or it will start ghosting again). If you have static problems with all prints, then you probably have a temperature and/or humidity issue in your booth. Fix with humidifier, dehumidifier, or HVAC upgrade. If your problems are just with one print, the issue is probably with the print itself. I'm sure that John P. would want to hear from you if the print is on Kodak print stock. Filmguard is useful for helping with static issues, too, and can be used for this purpose even if you don't have a media cleaner. See the instructions that come with it for more info.  |  IP: Logged Richard Greco Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1180 From: Plant City, FL Registered: Nov 2003 posted 11-19-2003 08:44 PM                     Steve, The leader is on the floor when I thread through the upper roller on the projector. I need to thread down to the lower but it is hard to reach till I get it very low to the floor. My platters are oppisite the operation side of the projector. Thanks for the advice, I'll start fixing them asap.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-19-2003 08:55 PM                     quote: Don't you go from payout over various platter rollers, over to the upper projector arm roller, down to the lower, back to the platter, over various rollers and then to the takeup deck? The part in bold above is where you are making your mistake. Do NOT put the film in this roller until the entire platter is threaded. By putting the film in that roller, you are putting the film too close to the floor. Look at the "Threading 101" page in the tips section for pictures. I would comment on the other questions, but they have already been well answered.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 11-19-2003 09:05 PM                        Like Scott said, keep the machine clean using a tooth brush. Don't get lazy and use the tooth brush while the projector is running though. That could get expensive fast. Turn it over by hand.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 11-20-2003 04:56 AM                        quote: Don't you go from payout over various platter rollers, over to the upper projector arm roller, down to the lower, back to the platter, over various rollers and then to the takeup deck? depending on the installation, it might not be possible to skip that. on our 2 projectors with gear-side platters (and the 3rd as well), there is conduit running from the front of the projector to the wall in front. if you bypass the bottom roller, you'll never get the film on it later. it may have been stupidly installed, but there it is. however, with care and bottom-up threading (or a clothespin) it's still possible to keep the film off the floor. carl  |  IP: Logged Edward Jurich Master Film Handler Posts: 305 From: Las Vegas USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 11-20-2003 08:14 AM                     If the booth floor is kept clean (a clean booth is a happy booth), then the first few feet of leader touching the floor is not a problem.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 11-20-2003 01:54 PM                        It's very difficult to keep the floor perfectly clean, but you should certainly try. But always keep the leader off the floor, no matter how clean you think your floor is.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-20-2003 06:30 PM                     Per Carl's post 2 steps up, yes your installing technician was a foolish and lazy idiot for installing your equipment like that. However like you said, you are stuck with it. The solution in this manner is to put the film in the upper roller, open the soundhead door and wrap the film around the projector skipping the lower roller and back to the projector. That should cure your problem.  |  IP: Logged Richard Greco Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1180 From: Plant City, FL Registered: Nov 2003 posted 11-20-2003 10:08 PM                     Thank You Brad, That would definately work. BTW Is it unusual that my manager isn't letting me build through the holidays? Or is it that she just doesn't trust me yet.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 11-20-2003 10:31 PM                    As long as she knows you can build without scratching the print it shouldn't be too much of a concern because of course you preview your shows before subjecting an audience to them, right?  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-20-2003 10:51 PM                     You would know your situation better than we would. How do YOU feel about it? Do you think you could do it? IF so then talk with the boss and tell her so. Be polite about it! I'll tell you what I do in my booth: The film program at my college is staffed entirely with Work Study students. I wouldn't even let them into the booth if I didn't think they were capable of doing the job and doing it correctly. Next, everybody comes up to the booth for the first one or two films and just watches while I do things and explain it to them. I watch them just as much as they watch me. After the first couple of films I have a pretty good idea of who's capable of what jobs. I mentally divide the group up into "Builders", "Operators", "Breakdown-ers" and "Helpers". Each student gets concentrated in one of those areas at first. As time goes on, the ones who show aptitude learn more jobs At first, I always stay nearby while they work. As they get better and better at their jobs I move off into the background until I am able to simply tell them to do their job. At no time, even if I let them work 100% independantly, am I farther away than a phone call. (We don't have radios but I do carry my cellular at all times & my number is posted by the phone in the booth.) Everybody works under the strict understanding that, if there is trouble, they are to hit the "Stop" button (or stop what they are doing) and call me. As long as that rule is followed, I will not hold their mistakes against them. (Unless there was negligence or fooling around.) If your boss is a good manager, I would expect that she's doing the same, or similar, thing with you. (Based on what I know of the situation I have no reason to believe otherwise.) How do you think things are going? Does she always hang around watching you when you work? Does she let you work independantly on some jobs and not others? My bet is that she's watching you from a distance to see how well you do your job. My advice is to study up and practice as much as you can. Let the boss know that you are working hard but don't go so far as to say, "Hey, boss! I'm studying up so that I can build up movies." That's just tacky. If you are doing a good job she will eventually let you do other tasks. Unless she's a total power freak she has no reason to keep you from learning new jobs! She hired you to WORK! If she doesn't let you do what she's paying you for she's wasting money and time. She has better things to do than to do all the work that others should be doing! My bet is that she thinks the stakes are high right now. It's the beginning of the holiday season. The theater is getting busy. She can't afford to let any stupid mistakes happen. Upper management is probably watching. Once you prove that you are capable of doing the job and doing it well you are sure to be building up films! Just have a little patience! PS: In my post above I talked about what happens to a print when it gets sprocket marks in it. I found one of my old pictures of what a damaged print looks like when it winds up on a platter.  |  IP: Logged

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