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Author Topic: What is the largest screen possible with today's lamphous and 35 mm technology? Kevin Wale Expert Film Handler Posts: 167 From: Guymon, OK USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 10-02-2003 07:27 PM                     Title says it all. I'm just wondering if anything approaching IMAX size is even possible with a 35mm projector. I assume the lamp technology is there. The hinderence I think of is the lenses. Any ideas?  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-02-2003 08:57 PM                     The limitation is the film itself 35mm wide the size of a postage stamp It has a fixed amount of resolution and can handle a finite amount of heat aka light 35mm really shouldn't be asked to make a scope picture bigger than 48-52'  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 10-02-2003 10:28 PM                     You are limited only by the lamp wattage and the throw distance. Remember the larger the screen, the more might energy required to illuminate it to the proper brightness levels. The largest xenon lamp that can be safely run with 35mm film is 7000W. Scope will be a bit brighter than flat for a given set of parameters. The shorter the throw, the more wattage you will need to light up a very large screen. Keep the throw long, and you can use longer lenses. Huge screens with short throws are very difficult to do right with 35mm. To completely fill an IMAX screen would be near impossible to do because of vignetting issues and lamp wattage. -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 10-03-2003 11:08 AM                    There is probably some way to do it with a Cinefocus gate hooked up to a source of refrigerated air.  |  IP: Logged Kevin Wale Expert Film Handler Posts: 167 From: Guymon, OK USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 10-03-2003 11:48 AM                     I was driving and I saw our old abandoned drive in screen and I thought... why can't we put a screen that size in the auditorium? I feel as do most it seems, that larger screens are the future of cinema. If you sit on the back row of many theatres, it's litterally not much different than watching my parent's 55" Mitsubishi 16x9 hidef tv. I hear everyday people talking about how such and such movie will be great but that they are waiting for the DVD. It seems that more and more every day only the big big big movies(LOTR, Matrix, SW, etc.) are really catching people's interest in the long run. Before we did our lamphouse upgrades, EPII looked 100 times better on our hidef than it did at our theatre. This is likely the case at many theatres. IMAX is in the drivers seat with all the digital mastering going on. Since they can get those movies early now I can see that they may litterally replace what we think of as the cinema. However, it totally cuts off the edges of the picture. Even flat is wider than IMAX. Nothing beats the original Star Wars in scope. To me even IMAX wouldn't. So, I just kinda got off in my what if mode wondering what if there was IMAX size for those who need something more than what is currently offered, while retaining widescreen for those of us who have that odd emotional attatchment to 2.35:1. I guess now is a good time to be thinking about it... someone will be the guy who infuses old time life back into the industry. I just hope we don't have to compromise some of the things that TV has compromised for so long.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 10-03-2003 11:51 AM                        Yeah, maybe somebody should develop a 70mm system for regular theatres. You don't need digital technology to make 'big' movies. You just need some extra money for the extra film and the equipment to show it.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 10-03-2003 11:59 AM                     quote: I was driving and I saw our old abandoned drive in screen and I thought... why can't we put a screen that size in the auditorium? Measure the throw distance betweenn the booth and the screen at the drive-in. Then you will know why screens that size aren't feasable for an indoor... Unless you had a several hundred foot throw (read: really huge, long auditorium-effectively placing a drive-in inside of an auditorium and installing seating), you aren't gonna get it to work with 35mm. -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Martin Brooks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 900 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 10-03-2003 12:03 PM                        There are a number of large screens in NYC theaters and they all look pretty good, although I don't know what the throw distance is and I don't know the focal length of the projections lenses that they're using. Loew's Lincoln Square has a 62.5' screen, I assume on screen #1 ("The Loews"), but it's curved. The Loews Kips Bay screen #10 and Loews E-Walk screens #12 and #13 have a 62' screen. Loews Astor Plaza claims to have a 61' screen (seats around 1440), but that screen has never seemed that large to me. Clearview's Ziegfeld (about 1530 seats) has a 52' screen. I cant swear that they're all using every last inch of the width, even with Scope. ---- And the formula for lens/screen width/throw, etc. is : F*W=D*A where F=focal length of the lens in inches, W=Width of the screen in feet, D=Distance in feet, A= aperture in inches.  |  IP: Logged Alan Haigh Film Handler Posts: 45 From: Watford, UK Registered: Jul 2003 posted 10-03-2003 12:27 PM                    Why do longer lenses need less wattage? I thought wattage was determined by screen size only, not throw.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 10-03-2003 05:45 PM                        The venerable Edwards Big Newport allegedly has an 80' screen. Although I haven't seen a 35mm show there in a long time, my recollection is 35mm didn't look too bad on it, as long as you didn't sit too close. LOTR:FOTR looked "ok" on the Cinerama Dome screen, better than I would have expected. But then "acceptable" isn't the same as "optimal".  |  IP: Logged Ron Lacheur Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 650 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-03-2003 05:59 PM                     Would a screen size of 100' be pushing it for 5/70 films?  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 10-03-2003 07:17 PM                        Multiplex Arcadia in Italy ( here) has a wondeful 98feet perlux screen. I saw many films there, they have Vic 8 with 10.000 W xenon. Light was always perfect. And image too has a fantastic quality, compared to the dimensions of the screen. Bye A  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 10-04-2003 07:42 AM                        6000 and 7000 watt lamps are the largest normally used for 35mm projection. With proper heat filtration, good lamphouse focus and alignment (no "hot spotting"), efficient lenses, proper use of a curved gain screen, and water-cooled gate, you should be able to meet Standard SMPTE 196M on a 60 x 25 foot scope image, or perhaps even larger. There have been recent advances in lens design, lamphouse optics, and screen surfaces that allow even more efficient utilization of the light. http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/pytlak/fall97.shtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/pytlak/winter97.shtml  |  IP: Logged Edward Jurich Master Film Handler Posts: 305 From: Las Vegas USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 10-04-2003 10:51 AM                     The theater I was helping out has a 50' wide (scope) curved screen. With a curved screen, it really doesn't look like it's 50' wide because measurement is the actual length of the screen material. The actual width of the screen frame is less because it's curved.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 10-04-2003 06:18 PM                        The apparent width of the image depends upon the curve used, and how far from the screen you are sitting. A gain screen should be curved per SMPTE Recommended Practice RP 95, ideally by ray tracing, to reflect the light back to the primary seating area. In most cases, it will not be the deep curve associated with Cinerama, but somewhat shallower.  |  IP: Logged

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