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Author Topic: Unusual cue marks Charles Everett Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: New Jersey Registered: May 2001 posted 09-09-2003 05:37 PM                     The Regal Warrington Crossing picked up The Magdalene Sisters on its national break. The print playing in Warrington has unusual cue marks: A white "show print" cue mark on top of a black "regular print" cue mark. They appear clear as day in every reel, even at the end of R6. Are these white-on-black cue marks on all US release prints of The Magdalene Sisters -- or is this an isolated instance?  |  IP: Logged Chris Hipp Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1462 From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas) Registered: Jul 2003 posted 09-09-2003 05:49 PM                     The print we had had normal black cue marks.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-09-2003 05:49 PM                        Sounds like some changeover operator was either nearly blind or afraid that he wouldn't be able to see the cues and added his own on top of the lab cues. I've worked with people like this before. Curtain cues in the lower right-hand corner of the frame are sometimes added as well.  |  IP: Logged Hugh McCullough Expert Film Handler Posts: 147 From: Old Coulsdon, Surrey, UK Registered: Jan 2003 posted 09-09-2003 05:56 PM                        I remember showing, many years ago, a German film that had green square cue dots for the motor start, and triangular cues for the changeover. Have never seen this idea since.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 09-09-2003 08:18 PM                        The white circular cue inside a regular printed black cue sounds like someone used a Clint Phare marker to make the cue more obvious to overcome a visual handicap.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-10-2003 01:22 AM                        Big square cue dots seem to have been a phase that the British Film Institute (or a lab that it used) went through for their distribution prints and archive viewing copies in the late '80s/early '90s. They stuck out like a sore thumb. When I went to see films with friends who wouldn't recognise a projector if it dropped on them from a great height, they would notice the cue marks and ask me 'what those big square blobs were'. Making the over cue a different symbol from the motor cue might be a good idea, because it would prevent any possibility of a projectionist wondering if (s)he had missed the motor cue. But whatever the symbol, they need to be small, unobtrusive and brief enough to be seen if you know they're there and are looking for them, but not otherwise.  |  IP: Logged Christopher Seo Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 530 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-10-2003 01:24 AM                     I've seen this in various rep prints, including instances of only the first and third frames of lab cue being scribed over. And then there are some who go all out and scribe six frames' worth of cues.... I seem to recall some mention of older German cues having different shapes/colors...? Doesn't seem too useful to distinguish between motor and changeover cues, though, since if you miss the motor cue (but see the changeover cue) you will only have an extra second to realize you messed up the changeover.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-10-2003 01:54 AM                     quote: Making the over cue a different symbol from the motor cue might be a good idea, because it would prevent any possibility of a projectionist wondering if (s)he had missed the motor cue. Not like it matters much. If the projectionist missed the motor cue their changeover is screwed anyway. Personally I think we need to abandon the traditional cue marks in favor of specialized CAP coding cue marks. After all the CAP coding on some of these prints lately is far more obnoxious than changeover cue marks, so we mine as well let them do double duty, right?  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-10-2003 01:58 AM                        ...which is enough to press the 'over' button (ensuring that the douser on the incoming machine is shut) and mute the sound before the audience sees the tail section of the outgoing reel. But the real advantage would be to put the projectionist's mind at rest that no, (s)he hasn't missed the motor cue. I would have appreciated that in the days when I didn't have much changeover experience, especially with older prints that had accumulated multiple sets of cues. However, in over 10 years showing films I only did actually miss one, which was in a very dark scene on a badly graded print of The Magnificent Ambersons. The cue was simple hole punched out of the interneg job without any border. If it had been me examining the print before the show I'd have looked at that reel on the Steenbeck and written down the line of dialogue (or other visual cue) immediately before it appeared. I think anyone would have been at risk of missing that, and wouldn't be surprised (the print was new when I showed it) if that reel later acquired some rather more obtrusive homebrew cues.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 09-10-2003 07:06 AM                    I inspect everything I run and if I have any doubts as to visibility I'll Clint Phare it. It's usually not necessary with normal dots printed via punching the dupe negative (solid black) unless it's a dark scene and they didn't ink the periphery of the holes sufficiently to give them white halos. But on films with those very tiny, very thin rings, unless it's clearly visible against the background, they'll need to be scribed. One thing I do no understand in terms of reinforcing existing dots are those folks who scribe the first and last dot of the set of 4 in a single cue. This is more obtrusive not less as it will cause a rapid flash of two dots not one.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 09-10-2003 08:12 AM                        Steve: Note that Charles said that every reel had scribed cues on top of the existing lab printed cues. As you note, using a Clint Phare scribe is fine if the printed cue is very difficult to see, but that should hopefully be a rare occurance. I also agree that "flashing" cues are a real distraction to the audience.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-10-2003 09:04 AM                        quote: ...unless it's a dark scene and they didn't ink the periphery of the holes sufficiently to give them white halos. Which was exactly the case with this reel of Ambersons that foxed me. BTW, what is a Clint Phare? A cue mark inscriber?  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 09-10-2003 12:20 PM                        quote: BTW, what is a Clint Phare? A cue mark inscriber? Yes, it is a metal jig that registers the print, with four holes positioned in the correct cue mark position to insert and rotate a special scribing tool that makes a circular mark on the film: http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=001403;p=1  |  IP: Logged Hugh McCullough Expert Film Handler Posts: 147 From: Old Coulsdon, Surrey, UK Registered: Jan 2003 posted 09-10-2003 05:24 PM                        Cue marker, British version, www.cinephoto.co.uk/misc_other_17.htm  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-11-2003 12:21 AM                        What's the source of the black stick-on cue dots that I've seen applied to some prints by an earlier projectionist ? They wouldn't seem to be office supply items; they've got an outer area of clear tape around the black dot.  |  IP: Logged

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