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Author Topic: Platter problems. Speco LP270/3. bottom platter scratching Kevin Wale Expert Film Handler Posts: 167 From: Guymon, OK USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 08-20-2003 06:50 PM                     Hellooo, Two of our houses have the Speco LP 270/3 platters. If that doesn't ring a bell, they have the three rollers at the top and the adjustable takeup roller instead of the three fixed takeup rollers and two top rollers. The bottom platter on these two platters always scratches film. The sideways angle deck scratches on the emulsion side. The thing is, I have litterally watched the thing run through start to finish and I never see the film even touch the deck where it comes onto the platter at that angle. Is there something somewhere else that could cause these sideways scratches? Only on the bottom platter? My first thought was warped discs. Well, I never saw the film touch so even if it is warped(which I have since concluded it is anyway) it doesn't seem to be the cause. I know a time or two the roller assembly has slipped out of the hole and slipped down a 1/4 inch or so and this of course does scratch the film. It's just odd that it doesn't have this problem on the top two decks. My second thought was that adjustment is needed but it is on both platters and it seems to be not scraping anywhere. Could it even be something with the payout platter on that bottom deck? Maybe in the brain where the film does it's first bit of twisting? It's just driving me mad! LOL  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-20-2003 08:02 PM                     Do you have a keeper on the last roller in the chain? (The roller that you dismount and remount to takeup on different decks.) If not, put one on there. If the roller's bracket can not pivot effortlessly, it will remain pointed toward the center ring and the scratching will get worse as the movie progresses. If you are getting actual "platter deck" scratches, the scratches will be worse at the beginning of the movie and fade as the show progresses. Which is your situation? Always run the film soundtrack up on the platter decks and with the soundtrack on the takeup elevator towards the tree.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 08-20-2003 08:54 PM                    As Brad stated those are possabilities. One thing to think about is this. Since you are using the bottom deck to pay out from do you have a print covered on the middle deck. If so does the cover hang over the edge of the platter and touch the film as it is paying out. Something you will want to make sure doesn't happen  |  IP: Logged Kevin Wale Expert Film Handler Posts: 167 From: Guymon, OK USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 08-21-2003 12:24 AM                     Umm, not sure on whether the scratches were worse on the beginning or the end. We don't use the bottom platters on those two platters at all anymore. It's just not worth those scratches. We use the three new smaller screens for 99% of our splits now so we can just avoid those bottom decks completely. At least until I figure out where the problem is. I have an old preview reel ready to go to test it as I get some ideas. I'm check on the soundtrack up and in part which means the emulsion side is always on the rollers. The roller bracket pivots freely and there was never a cover on a print on the middle deck(we don't even have any that I know of... again, I've been in quite the microcosm the year or so that I have been in this business.) Maybe the time I watched the film for so long everything was just right, and maybe it is the assembly popping out of the hole. We thought for a long time that was sure to be it and that it was operator error. But, Seabiscut was a brand new print and it had a couple of scratches in that direction on one of those platters and it wasn't on the bottom platter. It's the only time we had seen that happen so soon and three of us were there so we know it wasn't operator error as far as the film scraping against anything because of laziness in threading the platter. With that, we thought... well maybe it isn't just those bottom platters, but it was just that one time and we havne't seen it since. Maybe something happened at the lab on that one as it did have very very fine base side scratches on the first run(which was indeed filmgaurded, I don't run a new film without it.) We looked the platter over and all rollers were rolling and nothing was dragging. The projector had just been cleaned out so we are still Perhaps there is just some slight microscopic thing out of alignment that isn't seen with the eye so much but is just enough to scratch on those two bottom decks.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-21-2003 03:16 AM                     Let us know whether you guys are running soundtrack up or soundtrack down, then try and describe the scratches as you see them projected onto the screen. We can be of more help that way.  |  IP: Logged Ken Layton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1452 From: Olympia, Wash. USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-21-2003 09:04 AM                     Also, does your platter have all the upgrades like the keeper roller kit, adjustable take-up roller retrofit kit, and drop-in payout control retrofit?  |  IP: Logged Kevin Wale Expert Film Handler Posts: 167 From: Guymon, OK USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 08-21-2003 11:56 AM                     I'm not sure on the retrofits. Is there a site where I can see what they kits look like? I know they are running the soundtrack up and towards the tree. I'll have to see if we still have a print going that found it's way on one of those bottom platters to look at it. Finding Nemo was the last print that I know of that was ever run down there.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 08-21-2003 12:34 PM                    Check the alighnment of the two inch rollers in the brain. If you are running the film with soundtrack up and you pull the film through the brain to the first roller on tree with the soundtrack torwards the tree. The film will have a noticable sag in it. If that two inch roller is not alighned just right that sag can run across the edge or the roller in the brain. I normaly pull the film through with soundtrack to me in that area to eliminate the sag. this is the way that the film comes off for me. No large amount of sagging.  |  IP: Logged Ky Boyd Hey I'm #23 Posts: 314 From: Santa Rosa, CA, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-23-2003 05:47 PM                       Kevin, Does your SPECO LP270 have a fixed roller to take-up on each deck or one take-up roller on a slider that you position in the correct location for your take-up deck? I ask because we have 5 LP-270's and 1 of them has the sliding take-up deck roller. If you have the sliding take-up deck roller and the scratching is only happening when you play to the bottom deck, then it is possible that the sliding roller is simply at the bottom of the slider rather than sitting slightly higher in its notched hole. If the roller is sitting below the level of the platter deck the film will drag on the deck and scratch. Good luck!  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-23-2003 06:11 PM                     Ky hit on something I had completely forgotten about. What I prefer to do to ensure that this does not happen is wrap gaffer's tape around the base of the rod such that if the projectionist doesn't get the pin locked into place for running to the bottom platter, the tape at roughly 1/4" lower will prevent the roller from dropping "too far downward" and stop scratching across the surface of the deck.  |  IP: Logged Ky Boyd Hey I'm #23 Posts: 314 From: Santa Rosa, CA, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-23-2003 06:26 PM                       Brad, That's an excellent idea!  |  IP: Logged Kevin Wale Expert Film Handler Posts: 167 From: Guymon, OK USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 08-23-2003 07:28 PM                     It's the adjustable bar type. The thought of it slipping was the first thing we suspected so when I watched it I made sure it was in that position. I'm sure a few times that was indeed the cause, but it seems like it will do even with it positioned correctly. I did notice that some of it might be during build up. Those Speco tables are hard to position correctly and I think at times they may have fallen off the blocks or shifted. I also think that the film sometimes is dragging the table just like it would the platter during a show. We discussed this last night a bit. We're not where we want to be yet but we are working on it.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-23-2003 07:37 PM                     It works on Christie platters too. It's never been a problem in theaters I've worked, but for places with high booth turnover it is a big benefit.  |  IP: Logged Kevin Wale Expert Film Handler Posts: 167 From: Guymon, OK USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 08-23-2003 08:49 PM                     Yeah, the Christie's have the pins and if you postion the roller bracket on top of the pin it can slip off. Is the gaffer's tape easy to replace when it gets smushed a bit? I know some tapes get hard and nearly impossible to peel if they get all smushed up like that. I do like the tape idea. At least I can put it on and if the bottom platters never scratch again in that manner we will know... and if it does still scratch at least we have eliminated one thing.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-23-2003 09:23 PM                     Permacel brand gaffer's tape is what I use. It won't leave a residue unlike duct tape and other cheap tapes. A nice hefty roll will cost you almost $20, but it is well worth it. I buy mine from Panavision in the Dallas area, but maybe John Pytlak will chime in shortly with a link to buy it online. For an AW3 platter, you can also dismount the track from the platter tree and drill a hole, then simply put a nut and bolt through the hole that will never wear. Just make sure you have your markings set just right before you drill.  |  IP: Logged

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