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Author Topic: KINOTON vs CINEMECCANICA Sally Burgess Film Handler Posts: 17 From: New Zealand Registered: Nov 2002 posted 08-04-2003 01:50 AM                     Is it just me or do the Kinoton FP30 projectors give a better, steadier picture? I work with Vic5 projectors and from what I have seen the Kinotons seem a better bet for a clearer image. What does everyone else think...  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 08-04-2003 01:59 AM                        Uh, there's a reason Cinemecccannniiicccaaa earned the name Shakeuhmechanica. Of course, the newer V5 gates give a steadier picture than the older style... and with the older style, as long as you frame the mechanism all the way up (so that the intermittent sprocket is closest to the aperture) they project a decent picture. That said, they don't come close to a Kinoton. Now I wait for Antonio to correct my spelling.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 08-04-2003 10:03 AM                        If you compare a Vic 5 with an FP, both in optimum condition, I think few would argue that the FP will give a much steadier picture, is kinder to prints and more tolerant of worn or shrunken stock (an important point if you're showing arthouse or rep product on a regular basis). The Vic 5's strong point is ease of maintenance. All the routine maintenance jobs and just about any emergency repair to a Vic can be done with a set of Allen keys and some common sense, and (in the UK at least) spare parts are a lot cheaper, too. That is not the case on a Kinoton at all: a lot of routine jobs are very complicated, require a lot of skill and patience and the consequences of getting even a small detail wrong can be very serious. So IMHO it boils down to what your priority is: about the best mechanical performance available from any 35mm projector on the market, or simple and cheap maintenance. For example, if I'm in a major city centre, show lots of arthouse and have a service company readily available, I'd install Kinoton. If I'm in a 20-screen multiplex in the middle of nowhere, only ever show new or nearly new prints and need to be able to fix a projector quickly and easily if it goes wrong, I'd install Cinemeccanica.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 08-04-2003 02:49 PM                        What do you mean? The Kinotons are the simplest projectors of all to maintain. There is so little to maintain because they have so few parts on them. Those parts that are still left on the projector head are almost all very solid and sturdy, and the design is very structured and logical. Maybe you only know the more complex studio machines. For a multiplex, an FP30D or E without the extra options is a very easy to handle and maintain projector. The pressure skate, gate bands and guide rollers can be cleaned and changed in seconds. You can take any of the plastic rollers off and wash them in water. Some of the rollers need to be lubricated a little bit, most are self-lubricating and need only a little cleaning. Oilchanges and repair work inside the projector is a joy because you just have to swing the door open and have easy and confortable access to all the parts inside. The lamphouse is also well structured. No confusion and inaccessible parts here either. The igniter components sit on an open board waiting to be visually inspected and changed piece by piece in case of failure. I have worked with dozens and dozens of Kinoton projectors of all types and configurations, in studio, festival and multiplex environments - I would agree that the studio projectors are very complicated and only for the trained hand, but the basic configurations are exactly the right tool for the daily "grind".  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-04-2003 09:36 PM                     the vic 5 with the curved gate produces a excellent picture I really find both a well built robust machine  |  IP: Logged Stephen Jones Master Film Handler Posts: 314 From: Geelong Victoria Australia Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-05-2003 04:37 AM                     Sally, Kinoton wins the race,rock steady picture, easy to maintain and best value for money and I find them ideal for multiplex operation. More so the FP50D as its designed for multiplex operations,also find Kinoton platters the best there is. Stephen  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 08-05-2003 06:40 AM                        Try replacing an intermittent sprocket. Vic 5 = Allen key, replacement sprocket, 5 minutes. Kinoton = strip entire gate assembly. Try correcting shutter ghosting. Vic 5 = remove lamphouse chimney, shutter cover, loosen shutter and adjust. Kinoton = remove chains, toothed pulleys and goodness knows what else just to get at it.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-05-2003 07:26 AM                     On the "E" Kinotons...just an allen key with three screws and the shutter can be adjusted...heck they even have a status LED so you can set the thing. I've never had to align a Kinoton D or earlier shutter...never drifted. Now with limited exposure to Cinemeccanica I've had shutter boxes go out. It is kinda like the Century versus Simplex arguement in the US...Sure the Century is far easier to work on (only need a straigt blade screw driver for most operations!) but the trouble is, you are always having to work on them. Steve  |  IP: Logged Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 08-05-2003 08:08 AM                        As my FP30D is only about one month old, i have not been doing anything but changing oil, but as the projector replaced a Vic 9, i do have room in my memory for noting the difference - You know "See the Difference", as they say in Münich. Those two projectors are not comparable at all. I'm even that impressed, that I dare to claim, I have a better picture on the FP30 than on the DP70's next door. As some of You may remember, I cryed much about space and user comfort, but after the 3-lens carousel went out and 4 single lens holders in, I just love the new machine. And if the sprockets are going on for as long as they do on the dp70, I really can't see any reason to mention that replacement job, Leo. The whole Cinemec projector will be worn out before You need a new sprocket for the Kinoton ! Per  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-05-2003 10:16 AM                       quote: the vic 5 with the curved gate produces a excellent picture I really find both a well built robust machine  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 08-05-2003 12:29 PM                        Exactly, what are you saying, Tim?  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 08-05-2003 03:42 PM                        Leo, these are not everyday maintenance operations. Also, you have to perform these very rarely, as these parts get out of alignment or wear out also very rarely. And if you have to time the shutter, you don`t have to take half of the projector head apart. You just losen the screws which hold the shutter to the shaft and turn it a little bit in the desired direction, that`s it.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 08-05-2003 04:19 PM                        quote: You just losen the screws which hold the shutter to the shaft... ...using your 3ft long fingers which can withstand white-hot heat... quote: ...and turn it a little bit in the desired direction, that`s it.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 08-06-2003 08:09 AM                        3 ft long fingers? You might want to check if you have the right type of machine. Maybe someone swapped the manufacturer`s nameplates.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-15-2003 09:20 PM                     I love the title of this thread...... Man, its like comparing a 2003 Lamborghini to an old rusty Fiat!! Mark  |  IP: Logged

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