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Author Topic: Are all Film Distributors deaf? Ray Derrick Master Film Handler Posts: 310 From: Sydney, Australia Registered: Sep 2001 posted 07-22-2003 02:29 AM                     Every time I go to a Movie Convention, and I go to quite a few, the trailer reels for upcoming releases are played so loud that much of the time I have to put my fingers in my ears to protect my hearing from damage. If you visit the projection booth during one of these episodes you will usually be greeted with the sight of the relevant film distributor hovering over the fader control to make sure it is REALLY REALLY LOUD. Now on such an occasion you usually have a room full of industry professionals (I use the term loosely) who know (or should have some vague idea) how loud a cinema sound system should be. And yet always, always, we are subjected to excessive sound levels by some film distributor neanderthal. Now I like my movies loud, but not ear shattering! The loudness problem at the recent Cinema Expo convention in Amsterdam was exacerbated by the fact that the centre channel speaker had been equalised so sharp that it cut the air (and your eardrums) like a knife. It sounded a bit like a two-inch speaker spitting out 1,000 watts of acoustic power! I vote that an international culling season be declared on these film distributors who seem to delight in seeing their audience flinch with every word of the trailer voiceovers. Or is it just me? ...pardon?  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-22-2003 03:56 AM                        This is sort of typical of non-technical people closer to the sales & client rep side of things in almost all media involving audio. They want that crap LOUD for the client (or themselves), & if it goes to an outlet where the volume is limited, they want to beat the limiting by compressing it until there's almost no dynamics at all so it runs up against the top of the compressor. Think car ads on TV & radio. Sales/rep types have had only personal success with getting NOTICED, usually by distraction (loud noises, colors, etc.) It's often the only thing they understand, & they disbelieve any negative effects like turnoff, as long as it's noticed & remembered.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-22-2003 04:35 AM                     Yup, see it all the time. What these people don't realize is that if the movie is too loud (most especially if it is too harsh and ear piercing to listen to), then it distracts from the show! The viewers are too busy concentrating on how overly loud it is and the product doesn't settle in. To me the best way to set volume is to adjust the fader such that dialogue (not whispers or yelling) is at a comforatble level. Not loud, but not soft. (Better to err slightly toward the louder here to make sure dialogue is not lost.) Then 99% of the time everything else falls into place nicely. In your example it would appear the B-chaining tech overequalized the room to perfection, then packed up and left without making a final smoothing tweek by ear. Sometimes all that is needed is an ever-so-slight decrease in the course treble control.  |  IP: Logged Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 07-22-2003 04:35 AM                        Ray: You are 100 % right. They've heard about the "7" and insist on running every film right up there, without listening, cause "so says the book". The main difference between The Good Lord and Film Distributors is, that The Lord do not believe, he's a filmdistributor !  |  IP: Logged Christopher Duvall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 500 From: Denver, CO Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-22-2003 06:59 AM                     Reminds me when we had a test screening of ROLLERBALL and John McT had a remote fader wired from the booth to his seat. He had it CRANKED. The MGM techs also came in and re-EQ'ed that auditorium too hot. I guess it was to distract the viewers from that actual movie because it sucked. This was about 10 months before it came out. Disney did the same when they had test screening there but they had a tendency to keep it at specs for TAP and not as hot. However, after each test screening, my tech came in and fixed everything back to proper levels.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-22-2003 02:39 PM                        The loudest and worst sound I ever heard was a trade screening of "Batman Returns" at a theatre in Salt Lake City. The theatre had a great system, but it was just TOO loud. I don't care how good your sound system is, if the dialogue is blasting away and making you cringe in your seat, it's annoying. Last time I was at ShoWest, the screenings there were far too loud, also.  |  IP: Logged Greg Mueller Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1687 From: Port Gamble, WA Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-22-2003 03:13 PM                        Seems to be worse since "digital" came along. It has such great(?) dynamic capabilities. That's why I use the Smart Afterburner in my little screening room. I can knock that ear splitting right down.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-22-2003 06:03 PM                     There is a trailor comittee regarding SPL recording levels and the MPPA did refuse to issue a certificate on one preview last year because of its sound level As one engineer in a broadcast station said to me years ago For advertising always remember if it isn't overmod then it will be considered undermodulated  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-22-2003 06:39 PM                        We just got a memo from NATO saying there will soon be another meeting regarding trailer sound levels. They are looking for input with specific title examples. Send your comments to: nato@mindspring.com  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 07-22-2003 07:29 PM                        Excellent. They'll lower the average trailer volume by another quarter of a db. I still can't understand why they just don't lower them as far as they need to all at once. So there is a few months worth of trailers that have mix-n-match volume levels. That would be better then extending the problem over several years. But they are NATO. They MUST know what they are doing. Let's hope they actually do something logical for a change.  |  IP: Logged Peter Kerchinsky Master Film Handler Posts: 326 From: Seattle, WA, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 07-23-2003 04:52 AM                     In all the years I was in the booth at the Seattle International Film Festival, whenever there was a director or filmaker in the house, he would always ask the projectionists to kick the fader up at least 2 clicks, going from about 7 to 9. Damn, do thse guys think people are deaf or are they looking for some way to get their attention. Not sure, but we got lots of complaints on volume levels. After a while we used to agree to raise the volume for them, but really didn't and they didn't even know the difference.  |  IP: Logged Kevin Baglow Expert Film Handler Posts: 135 From: Yeppoon Qld, Australia Registered: Dec 2000 posted 07-23-2003 05:39 AM                        Maby you are just too old! ----Especially with the rock music film, I measure value for money with how much my ears are ringing ten minutes after I leave--- And im pushing 50. When I dont like it any more- i'll shut up:)  |  IP: Logged John Scott Master Film Handler Posts: 252 From: Oakdale, MN, USA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 07-23-2003 09:52 AM                     Lately I've been finding that the trailers have been fine, but the rolling stock has been way too loud. Just like on TV at home!  |  IP: Logged John Spooner Expert Film Handler Posts: 186 From: South Australia, Australia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 07-25-2003 02:28 PM                     The advertising industry in Australia has agreed on standard, uniform levels and compression protocols in Australia after years of complaints over noisy tv ads. The standards affect cinema film-ads as well. So now at long last the film-ad level is virtually the same as the feature, the trailers are still too loud though. When a theatre at which I previously worked had the AFI film awards, I was often spoken to by the director of the film screening regarding sound levels or their presentation requests. Most directors or sound engineers did not like the sound blaring out and preferred it at comfortable levels, after all they were professional movie production people and not sales people, knowing all too well that loud distracting sound spoils their creative work.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-25-2003 04:33 PM                        Pete said: "In all the years I was in the booth at the Seattle International Film Festival, whenever there was a director or filmaker in the house, he would always ask the projectionists to kick the fader up at least 2 clicks, going from about 7 to 9." The very next thing out of your mouth when you get a directive like that is, "Ah, so this is a non-standard print with poor sound levels? Or you are saying that you didn't mix this correctly?. Please come back when you've got a print that meets SMPTE standards. Next." Well, at least that's the way it would play out if *I* was king! Frank  |  IP: Logged

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