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Author Topic: "Pirates" SR track sounds wierd Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 07-10-2003 01:47 AM                        Here's an experience I haven't had to deal with in years. The analog track on my print of "Pirates" sounds like crap! The sound is much like what you'd get if you took an unencoded cassette and played it with Dolby C. The low level passages on my print almost literally disappear, and the dialog is choppy.... like we're trying to decode something that wasn't encoded to begin with. I'm getting much more acceptable sound off this print by running it in Dolby "A". What really highlighed the problem was that the 5 trailers I ran before the feature sounded just fine. "Pirates" sounded lousy right from the start & never got better. So, here's my question. Do I have a crappy print? (seems unlikely), or did the mixer guys just blow off the analog track because, naturally, all theatres worth spending your hard earned buck at MUST have working digital sound systems (right?)! The leaders never say much about the analog "backup" track anymore. Mine says it's got DTS, SDDS, SRD & SRDEX.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 07-10-2003 01:58 AM                     By the terms of the license with Dolby, if there is a SRD track, then the analog backup must be SR. Perhaps the analog mix just sucks. -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 07-10-2003 03:01 AM                        Yah, probably. Good to know though. I wasn't aware of that. Thanks  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-10-2003 03:02 AM                     What kind of analog reader do you have?  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 07-10-2003 03:32 PM                        Component Engineering's reverse scanner. In case you're heading in that direction, I'm planning to run my loop thru it today. Everything looks good visually, but you know how far that can get you.  |  IP: Logged Bruce Hansen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 847 From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-10-2003 04:49 PM                     Have you run the film more than once, to see if at the splice the film jumps out of place on the sound drum? Could the sound have been printed out of focus? This could cause the output of the cells to be at a lower level, and cause SR to miss-track.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-10-2003 05:47 PM                        Are all reels affected? If only one reel is affected, check the position of the track and whether is has even silver redevelopment (dark gray band across the width of the colored dyes in the track). If there was a slippage problem in the printer, the high frequency modulations in the track will be smeared or blurred.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 07-10-2003 07:33 PM                        Alignment is good. Nowadays, you don't have much wiggle room anyways... you go one way & you're reading sprockets. Go the other & it's the DTS track. It's like a built-in buzztrack loop! . Focus is also fine. Nothing's been whacked out of place. The trailers play fine, but everything changes when the print starts. I'm moving the show to another screen tonight. It'll be interesting to see if the problem moves as well. John... the whole print is like that, not just a reel or two. Jack  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-10-2003 10:27 PM                        Since each reel is printed and processed at a different time, often on different equipment and on different days, it would be very unusualy for a lab problem to affect all 8 reels like that. If there was a problem with the recording of the sound negatives (usually done on the same equipment), all prints would have the problem, and other theatres would complain too.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 07-14-2003 02:55 PM                        Good point, John. My preamp's probably set a little low on that screen.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-14-2003 03:04 PM                     Perhaps a RED LED/cyan dye issue or high-magenta issue? Do the trailers that sound good include an *attached* trailer (printed along with reel 1), or just the loose trailers (likely high-magenta or redeveloped silver). --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 07-15-2003 04:11 AM                        I just watched parts of it on a white light analog system, and I have to say it sounded really good. The trailers are not a really good comparison because they are often mixed just loud and in-your-face, without any dynamic range. Maybe the dialog sounds weird to you because they all speak with a British accent? More seriously, maybe your SR card has a problem. Did you take the card from another auditorium to check?  |  IP: Logged Trevor Bailey Expert Film Handler Posts: 113 From: Woonsocket, RI Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-15-2003 09:51 PM                        FYI, This past weekend, I had reports from six locations of bad sound. After finding no problems at the first two, it became apparent that they were both running "Pirates" and that was the common denominator. The complaint was the same: "Sound fading". It was impossible to determine which format was causing the issue as some theaters claimed to be playing digital (which they didn't have) and other said they were in analog (although their DTS and DD were working fine). ?? So, if you are having problems with "Pirates", don't dismiss the possibility of a bad print.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 07-16-2003 01:01 AM                        Thanks for the update, Trevor quote: Do the trailers that sound good include an *attached* trailer (printed along with reel 1), or just the loose trailers That's what initially made me suspicious. The loose trailers I added sound normal. The two that were attached (actually printed on the front... not spliced) also had that sound... like expanders working against a signal that hadn't been compressed to begin with. That could be caused by preamps that were set way lower than they should be, but I had no issues with the sound before this print of Pirates.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-16-2003 01:04 AM                     Jack: Red LED readers or white exciter lamps? Evidence of redeveloped silver soundtrack (purple coloration) or indication on the leaders of High-magenta? Also, what does running Cat 69T give you? --jhawk  |  IP: Logged

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