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Author Topic: Weird scratches on film Mike Heenan Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1896 From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 06-28-2003 06:15 PM                     Just curious about these scratches on a film, a scan is attached here. It's on the print throughout a few reels in the same place. I've seen this type of scratch on one other print.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-28-2003 07:51 PM                     More info needed. What kind of projector are you using? It is scratches on the base side or emulsion side of the film? I would guess there was a loop too big, or the intermittant sprocket film stripper is flapping around on the film, or the film is slapping and moving on a stationary part somewhere. It looks like some kind of "flutter scratch" in syncronization with the pull-down cycle. Is your film trap falling apart? and pad rollers ready to fall off? I never seen these type scratches in real life, but I am sure curious myself.  |  IP: Logged John Anastasio Master Film Handler Posts: 325 From: Trenton, NJ, USA Registered: Sep 2000 posted 06-28-2003 08:48 PM                        Looks like the kind of emulsion scratch you'll get from running a Christie with the lower loop set too large. The film slaps against the bottom of the Ultramittent on each pulldown.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-28-2003 08:59 PM                     Well they should never have released a projector that could do that kind of damage so easily. Are manufacturers in total denial of who's running movies these days?  |  IP: Logged Mike Heenan Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1896 From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 06-28-2003 09:18 PM                     Hi guys, sorry I wasn't too clear on my post. I did not cause these scratches myself (I run a motiograph AA by the way), its the way it was when it arrived. I thought the cause could be burrs or bumps somewhere along the film path in a projector but I've never seen these types of scratches before except on one reel of another print. And yes the scratches are on the emulsion side of the film.  |  IP: Logged Jeff Joseph Expert Film Handler Posts: 131 From: Palmdale, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2000 posted 06-28-2003 11:00 PM                        I don't think these are scratches. That's an IB Tech print; check out the sound track. I've seen this. It only happens to IB. The emulsion "cracks" like this. I think (not positive), that it was caused by the heat of a carbon arc at some point. It tends to be in very dark areas of the print, which would be the place that heat would be absorbed. I've seen this on several reel 4's of "Ben Hur" (IB prints). Reel 4 is full of dark, night scenes. Jeff Joseph SabuCat Productions  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 06-28-2003 11:50 PM                       I've seen this, too. Like Jeff said, only on IB Tech prints. It's like the emulsion wrinkled from being folded or bent or something.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-29-2003 12:39 AM                     Each frame with the same basic pattern? Two prints? I find that hard to believe, but I suppose anything is possible. I have to side with John, but the damage might have done in a multiple pass situation. Another thing that could cause it is a very badly worn and hooked intermittant sprocket. Sometimes they won't release the film on pull-down. It'll definately slap the intermittant....depends on how bad the sprocket is worn.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 06-29-2003 12:55 AM                    wouldn't there be emulsion side scratches of the green or yellow veriety if a projector head caused them? What is the name of the movie the scene is from?  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-29-2003 01:50 AM                     Darryl, that's why I asked. I didn't see much evidence of what one might expect to see for emulsion scratches. Maybe it was reported in error. Hard telling at this stage.... It could have been caused by an excessively tight loop if it was stock scratch..and that could have caused it to fwap against the heel of the trap between the intermittant sprocket shoe, especially if it was sprung.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-29-2003 04:41 AM                     I would tend to side with Jeff on this. I've been trying to figure out just how that kind of scratch could be made and I keep coming up with nothing close to what I see. Jeff's specialty is things like this and he has an insanely huge film archive and has handled lots of IB prints. I have a feeling he knows what he is talking about here.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-29-2003 04:47 AM                     Jeff is right, I have a heat damaged print like this in my collection, It comes ansd goes on my print on only one reel. And I've only seen it happen to I.B. Tech. Some of those 80 foot wide indoor screens with lamps that are just too large for the film format...... Mark  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-29-2003 12:32 PM                      |  IP: Logged John T. Moon II Film Handler Posts: 15 From: Las Vegas, NV, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 06-29-2003 07:45 PM                     This damage looks similar to what I saw when our cooling pump quit working on our 5k lamphouse. After a few passes this is similar to the damage we saw on the print which was our flag to a real problem with our system.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-29-2003 10:59 PM                     This may be way the hell off base but what the hell... I've seen some scratches of similar nature occur when somebody cleans the intermittent sprocket with a toothbrush while the motor is running. One of the bristles gets caught in the sprocket and is pulled right out of the brush handle. The resulting "hair" in the sprocket flaps against the film. The damage will be on the emulsion side and will build up into a fan shaped pattern as more and more runs are put on the print.  |  IP: Logged

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