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Author Topic: Digital sound for arthouses? YES!
Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 06-24-2003 04:28 PM      Profile for Charles Everett   Email Charles Everett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad said this in a related thread:

quote:
On your lengthy paragraph about only installing SR in art house theaters, I do not agree. The public is brainwashed on that stupid "digital" buzzword. They want to see it and they expect it. (Note I did not say they could tell a difference.)
I expect digital sound in megaplexes and I expect digital sound in stadium theaters. That theory has trickled down to arthouses and they are the better for it.

Just go to the Princeton Garden Theatre in Princeton NJ. It was rebuilt 2 years ago as a twin with digital sound and stadium seating. Hall #1 has a Dolby CP500D; hall #2 has a DTS6D and a Dolby CP65. Thanks to this rebuild the Garden landed "Oscar Bait" runs of A Beautiful Mind at Xmas 2001 and Chicago last winter. The Garden also is able to run the occasional wide-release title (The Fellowship of the Ring, Star Wars Episode 2, Road to Perdition) in digital.

The Angelika Film Center in NYC upgraded to digital in order to open The Matrix Reloaded.

quote:
The amount of dts or sdds titles available for an art house is damn near zero.
In recent months the AMC Hamilton has played The Guru (SRD/SDDS/DTS), Laurel Canyon (SDDS/SRD) and A Mighty Wind (SRD/SDDS/DTS) -- all of which were aimed at arthouses. This week the Garden picks up L'Auberge Espagnole (SRD/DTS).

(Info on the Garden courtesy of The Marquee newsletter from Entertainment Equipment Corp. Click on "The Marquee" link; newsletter is in PDF format.)

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-24-2003 09:59 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Charles,
I think you missed Joes point earlier in that some analog mixes sound better than the same digital mix and that it may be more desirable to play back the analog one. I have also found this to be true. There are some really killer analog mixes still being done out there. I agree that having digital capabilities might land you product over a non digitally equipped art house that might also be nearby. This is also somewhat true in regular multiplexs too.
Mark

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 06-25-2003 12:19 AM      Profile for Paul Linfesty   Email Paul Linfesty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
In recent months the AMC Hamilton has played The Guru (SRD/SDDS/DTS), Laurel Canyon (SDDS/SRD) and A Mighty Wind (SRD/SDDS/DTS) -- all of which were aimed at arthouses. This week the Garden picks up L'Auberge Espagnole (SRD/DTS).
Concerning the sheer number of arthouse films released in this country (outnumbering major studios by quite a number), I would say that your list pretty much qualifies for "near zero."

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Rachel Craven
Madam Moderator

Posts: 2190
From: Pensacola, FL
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 06-25-2003 01:43 AM      Profile for Rachel Craven   Email Rachel Craven   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It doesn't make sense for the majority of Art houses to get digital sound because a lot of the independent films are not released with it. For smaller art houses that don't make much $$$ (think of concession per caps on an art house compared to a multi-plex)...it just doesn't make sense. The majority of people that go to art films want a nice environment, clean theaters/bathrooms, clean picture quality, a friendly staff, and clean sound - IN THAT ORDER (yes, I have done a study on it). 'Clean sound' does not have to be digital.

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Mathew Molloy
Master Film Handler

Posts: 357
From: The Santa Cruz Mountains
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-25-2003 05:23 AM      Profile for Mathew Molloy   Email Mathew Molloy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I find that most of the arthouse product is SRD - I've run a lot of it and it's rare to come across something that isn't. Some of it has the DTS timecode but no discs were ever pressed, at least not for U.S. release.

Sure some of the analog mixes sound better but I think it's only during the moments with music. For example, Monsoon Wedding sounded better in analog but it's only because in digital most of the music came from the left and right speakers only. When run in analog that music gets matrixed out to all channels sounding fuller and warmer. A lot of independent films have that problem(?).

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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 06-25-2003 08:53 AM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well the arthouse in my area runs alot of foreign films and 99% of them have a MONO track!

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Paul Howard
Film Handler

Posts: 26
From: Huyton, Liverpool, UK
Registered: May 2003


 - posted 06-25-2003 09:12 AM      Profile for Paul Howard   Email Paul Howard   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If an Arthouse can afford to install digital sound or even get THX, then why not. Wont their be a point when even Indie product will be mostly recorded and mixed into at least Dolby Digital. As Charles said
quote:
I expect digital sound in megaplexes and I expect digital sound in stadium theaters. That theory has trickled down to arthouses and they are the better for it.

Any Upgrade of a cinema presentation can only be a benefit in the long term, unless its DLP.

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Tao Yue
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 209
From: Princeton, NJ
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-25-2003 11:15 AM      Profile for Tao Yue   Author's Homepage   Email Tao Yue   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Arthouses tend to run more used prints, though. Including well-worn prints which drop out of Dolby Digital a lot. Given the choice between hearing Nowhere in Africa in analog SR and hearing it in SRD with twenty dropouts, as happened to me at a local arthouse, I'd pick the former any day.

(To answer the obvious question, I'm not convinced it was the equipment, as previous Dolby Digital films in that auditorium sounded fine).

It's unfortunate that DTS, the more robust digital format (at least regarding timecode on prints, not sure about discs), is used on so few non-French arthouse releases. It's also hard to get discs for many of the French DTS films.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-25-2003 12:22 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Most art house films don't have very impressive sound mixes. In many cases, the SRD track (if there is one) doesn't sound significantly better than the SR track when reproduced on a well aligned system. I agree with Tao's comment that SR can actually sound better then SRD with multiple dropouts.

Whether or not it's "digital," I do believe that art-house audiences deserve "good" sound. Dialgoue should be clear and intelligible and music should sound musical. Lots of art houses are still mono-only, which is kind of sad, but which I can live with if the mono system sounds good (some do). Sure, it would be great if every film could be presented in its "best" sound format in a THX-certified auditorium, but I'm afraid that the expense would put many (most?) art-houses out of business. I'd rather have the option of seeing limited-release films under sub-optimal conditions than not have a chance to see them at all.

I think that Amelie was the last art-house film that I've seen that was available in DTS (timecode and disks).

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Bob Peticolas
Film Handler

Posts: 73
From: Mesilla, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 06-25-2003 01:35 PM      Profile for Bob Peticolas   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Peticolas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just as a point for comparison, out of our bi-monthly calendar, we run nine films (one a week) and at least seven of the nine are SRD. Occasionally we will get a film with DTS and at least twice a year we will get disks with a film (even though we don't have a DTS player).

We just installed new speakers throughout the house, three Crown stereo amps and wired for 5.1. The .1 speaker is on the way. I hope to install a Dolby reader by the end of the year.

About the only films we get that don't have at least matrixed stereo are the "classics" from the '60s and '70s.

The current calendar has films from Scotland, France, Australia, Brazil, Italy, Germany, and Iran. That's a lot of SRD from around the world.

And, if you do get a print with bad Dolby coding, run it in optical, there's always that option. That's why we preview features.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 06-25-2003 06:03 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Most of the 'Arthouse' type prints I see seem to have SR-D, DTS is much less common, and SDDS rare, I can't actually think of a title at the moment, but I think I have seen some. I have to say that I don't get to see as many prints as I used to.

I am certainly not opposed to an arthouse theatre installing digital if they can find the money, but I think this should be the last thing they do. If they already have a good analogue sound system, good accoustics in the auditorium, good lenses, comfortable seating, good lamps, good screen etc. and there is money to spare, then go ahead, and install digital. If not, then The money would be better spent improving these other things first. No point in listening to digital sound from poor speakers while sitting in a bad seat watching the film on an old, dirty screen.

Digital sound for arthouses? Maybe. How much does it cost now? I remember when first launched it was expensve, but with greater production voumes, the much reduced component count of the DA-20 compared with the DA-10, and the elimination of the separate power supply needed with the original readers, I would guess it has come down quite a bit in real terms.

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 06-25-2003 06:23 PM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The arthouse type films that I see here from Miramax, Fox Searchlight, Focus, Lion's Gate are mostly SRD/SR format.
Focus Films has the movie "Swimming Pool" coming soon it is SRD/DTS/SR. Fox Searchlight released "The Good Thief" in SRD/SR in the US, but in Canada DTS was availible. Focus Films had SRD/DTS/SR on their film "8 Women".
I get many films from all around the world for New York media screenings. The SRD format is what I see more of on these films.

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 06-25-2003 07:10 PM      Profile for Per Hauberg   Author's Homepage   Email Per Hauberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I think that Amelie was the last art-house film that I've seen that was available in DTS (timecode and disks).

Amelie a n d Gosford - the latter so dirty a print, that srd falls out very often, analog track even more damagaed - and the smaller arthouse distributors in Denmark do not support dts. -I was luckcy, being able to have dics send on loan from dts England - Thanks again, David - . BTW exactly these two titles, i think were hearable better in dts than srd.
As the prints (at least here) er normally very few, the wear is so much worse than mainstream-films, before they get all around, at so much more reason to go for dts to secure good presentation, also out here, where not even the coyote comes araound every month (far out !)

p.

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 06-25-2003 09:07 PM      Profile for Claude S. Ayakawa   Author's Homepage   Email Claude S. Ayakawa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Consolidated closed a number of theatres during the past few years and all of them were digital houses including the three theatre in Waikiki. They were able to move some of the processors from these defunct theatres over to the Kapolei 16 in my area making the complex 100% digital but the Consolidted's two art houses the Varsity #1 & #2 are still analogue SR houses. My friend Alan Sakaida who is Consolidated's chief picture and sound technician told me not too long ago that he would like to make those houses digital using surplus digital processors but it is not high priority right now because he has a lot of work to do at the chains many other theatres on all the islands in the state. "THE PIANIST" played in House One in SR and also played at Signature's Dole Cannery in SRD. Since I prefer Consolidated Theatres, I saw it with analogue sound.

-Claude

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-25-2003 09:52 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Claude, How was the analog mix on Pianist. I only saw(heard) it in DTS.
BTW: So I am not misquoted or taken wrong I certainly advocate digital for all theatres, just not the "all digital" type processors. However, in the art house situation it is more likely that someone could preview and listen to both the analog and the digital mix and then play back the best sounding of the two available mixes.
Mark

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