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Author Topic: Kinoton PK60D Coolant Needs John T. Moon II Film Handler Posts: 15 From: Las Vegas, NV, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 06-07-2003 10:26 PM                     I need some advice from the knowledge base from the members on Film-Tech. I have a number of Kinoton PK60D projectors with 5k lamphouses at my location here in Las Vegas. These projectors have a Water/Glycol cooled gate. Due to an error by the console manufacture, unbeknown to me the cooling system was running on 2 of my projectors 24 hours a day 7 days a week for a year. Then of course the pumps quit working at almost the same time within a few days of each other. The gate uses 2 White Delron strips and a Skate of other Black material. The Delron strips start to get tacky and melt to the aluminum. The film then starts to run into the aperture plate and scratch. Needless to say this is not the best situation for the film, projector, or the projectionists. The pumps run so quite you can not hear them or even see if they operate. The pump, tank, hoses etc. was supplied by Big Sky. I went on a hunt to replace the pumps. I went to a few hardware stores and specialty stores. They all needed to know how many Gallons Per Hour the pump put out. I called the Console manufacture. They could not tell me how many Gallons Per Hour are required for the proper cooling. I called Kinoton, they did not know, Big Sky did not know. So, with all the knowledge out there, with a 5k lamp and running a Water/Glycol mixture, the pumps I can buy are rated in Gallons Per Hour: What is the amount of coolant in (Gallons Per Hour) required in this application for proper heat removal? I have repaired the wiring problem so the pumps won’t run 24/7. I am currently running a pump which is pumping 350 Gallons Per Hour.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 06-07-2003 11:45 PM                        I don't know how many gallons per hour the original pumps pump, but you could measure it by pulling the return hose off of a working pump's reservoir and timing how long it takes to pump a gallon into an empty pail.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 06-08-2003 01:10 AM                        The original Kinoton water cooling system is specified at 2 l/min. The lifting capacity should be 3 bar, the refrigerating capacity 2500 W or 9000 kJ/h. That would be 120 l/h or just 30 gallons. The original system is quite small, but it works. I have also seen installations with much larger pumps, but mainly for 7 KW. Can you post a picture of your system? These values can be found in the manual, by the way. Maybe you should call your vendors again and thank them for their wonderful support... I can send you the manual. Would you like to have the German, French or English version?  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 06-08-2003 01:42 AM                     Micheal, since he is using a PK-60D mounted on what appears to be a Big Sky console package he probably has a 8 - 10 gallon tank with no refrigeration capablity with a submersible water pump....with no interlock capability to the projector in case of pump failure. If he is unable to get the pump from Big Sky, there is the industrial supplier - W.W. Grainger - located in most major U.S. cities. Richard Fowler Kinoton America Inc.  |  IP: Logged Dennis Benjamin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1445 From: Denton, MD Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-08-2003 02:20 AM                        Actually, our projector heads sit on a Neumade console system. (Meaning the 5K lamphouse is Neumade not Big Sky). :-)  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 06-08-2003 02:48 AM                     Stand corrected .....I know Crown uses Neumade consoles; just fixated on the Big Sky water cooler. Richard Fowler Kinoton America Inc.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 06-08-2003 03:38 AM                        What difference does it make? Neumade, Big Sky, the water cooling is for the projector head, not the lamphouse. Of course, different lamphouse constructions lead different amounts of heat towrds the gate, but it can`t make THAT big a difference.  |  IP: Logged Bernard Tonks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-08-2003 04:00 AM                     John T wrote, quote: The pumps run so quite you can not hear them or even see if they operate. One cinema I worked in had Westar (Century) water cooled projectors. Fitted in the outgoing pipe was a glass dome that had a white ball floating about, so that you always knew there was water flow. Just an idea!  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 06-08-2003 06:33 AM                        Is your cooling system two units, one round watertank with a flat top, and a box-shaped cooler or is it just one small box-shaped knee high unit?  |  IP: Logged John T. Moon II Film Handler Posts: 15 From: Las Vegas, NV, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 06-08-2003 08:53 AM                     The cooling tanks are about 2 1/2 feet tall blue barrels with 2 hoses and 1 power cord coming from the top of the tank. The hoses attach directly to the projector head and the power cord plugs into the console. That's all there is to it. I had VERY limited documentation with the projection systems when installed. I could not find any specifics on the cooling needs when I searched my documentation on site.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-08-2003 08:59 AM                     Those are the same ones Strong supplies They use a little giant garden submersable garden fountain pump It woun't hurt to put too much water through them  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-08-2003 10:15 AM                     This is the water circulator that we manufacture in our shops. It is made fomr a 10 gallon drum, Teel pump amd other misc items. It also includes a radiator with a muffin fan blowing through it to keep water temperatures at a reasonable level, basically what ever the booth is cooled to. Unlike the Strong circulator...if ya want to call it that....whos water just keeps getting warmer and warmer and......but then again the X-L water cooling is worthless anyway so why should their circulator be any better???? Running 4 lamps on DP-70's the cooling plates never get more than warm to the touch even after 6 shows! Our cost to manufacture these is less than our cost on the Strong circulator. Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-08-2003 10:20 AM                     (repeat what Gord said) A garden supply place should have Little Giant submersible pumps or you can order from Grainger. Get a magnetic drive model, there isn't any shaft seal to fail and they usually last longer. They cost a bit more but it is worth it. When the seal fails the water gets contaminated with the cooling oil from the motor cavity - nasty mess results. Aquarium supply places also have submersible pumps. Eheim from Germany is the best brand, but the Chinese ones are OK. Try to get one with a solid plastic housing, the Little Giant ones with painted aluminum cases corrode like mad in Glycol solution. Almost any model except maybe the smallest will do the job, the gate doesn't need much flow at all to keep from overheating to the point of damage.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 06-08-2003 10:39 AM                     This is the tank in use a John's projection room:  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 06-08-2003 12:30 PM                     The 8 gallon blue tank was the type we used to build water circulators, prior to myself joining Kinoton......only ours did not look as crude and based on what I see, our unit was built for safety. Richard Fowler Kinoton America Inc.  |  IP: Logged

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