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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Who produced the most 70mm projectors? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Who produced the most 70mm projectors?
David Kilderry
Master Film Handler

Posts: 355
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 05-09-2003 08:43 AM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It just occurred to me whilst reading the Simplex 35/70 topic that it would be interesting to know which company produced the largest amount of 70mm (5/70) projectors.

In Australia, the Cinemeccanica Victoria 8 would be the most common 70mm machine, followed by the Philips DP70/AA11/EL 4000, Bauer U3 and DP75 in similar numbers. Others exist here, but not in large quantities.

Thomas Hauerslev's excellent DP70 site documents this machine, but what about the Century JJ, Cinemeccanica Victoria 10, Toshiba, Simplex, Balantyne, Philips/Kinoton DP 75?

Does anybody have production figures on other brands, what is/was the most common 70mm projector in your part of the world?

David Kilderry

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-09-2003 08:34 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the states I would guess its the DP-70 by a large margin. There are alot of JJ's here too. Also, Sillyplex Odeon bought a large number of the 35/65mm Simplex's in the mid to late 80's for what ever reason. Most have straight gates for 35mm and curved 65mm gates to run 70mm on..... [Eek!]

We are about to put a rather large number of DP-70's back into service for 35mm operation mainly. These will all have a DTS "Attic" mounting plate which we designed to go in place of the original mag penthouse and will accomodate both the 35mm and 70mm DTS readers. Of course the mag stuff can be reinstalled if needed at any time but we feel the addtition of the DTS plate will allow the machine to keep up wuith the times for both 35 and 70mm film. The film path will be very similar to the old mag path and will utilize both the upper sprockets, one 35/70 giude roller and the original tensioning arm and pointer. This will provide the most reliable film flow through the DTS readers and high reliability TC playback.
Mark

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Sorry for the mag stripe film here...its all there was floating around the shop at the time.....

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 05-09-2003 09:28 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, I'm guessing there's probably a good reason [Wink] why nobody mentions Christie when talking 70mm projectors. Didn't Edwards Theatres deploy quite a few Christie 35/70s in the 80s? [Big Grin]

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-09-2003 09:57 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christie makes (made?) a 35/5-70 projector?

Around here (Boston area), Norelcos and JJs are the most common. I do agree with Brad, BTW, that JJs seem to give a steadier picture with 35mm than 35mm Centurys. As a side note, I don't think I've ever personally seen a Simplex 35/70 anywhere, though I know a theatre (the Naro in Norfolk, VA) with a pair of Bauer 35/70s.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-09-2003 10:51 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christie distributed the Westrex electronic 35/70 (5-8perf) projector under the epic badge
In canada the largest installed base is Vic8's followed by Simplex then ballantyne then DP75's then DP70's then VIc10's then JJ's and Prevost tied for last place

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 05-12-2003 08:44 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does everyone agree with Mark's assertion that the DP70/AAII was the #1 70mm projector in the USA? I'm not in disagreement; I would just like to see some discussion. Thomas' site says 1500 were made; I don't know how many of those came to the States. What do we know about serial number counts on the JJ? And the machines converted to JJ's from Cinerama heads must be included too. Is it safe to presume that JJ's outnumber everything except the big Norelcos (if not them as well)?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-12-2003 09:12 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the US I would think think that the simplex 35/70 would have the largest installed base since they were the standard machine installed during the 80's

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-12-2003 10:55 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I were to hazard a guess, I would have bet on the JJ having the largest installed base in the US. Norelcos are sure popular but I don't believe they out number JJs.

Worldwide, that is another story...with Bauer, Cinemeccanicca, Prevost...all cutting in the the pie in significant numbers, I would find it odd for a dominant projector manufacturer except in certain countries...like Italy where Cinemeccanicca would surely be the most popular.

Steve

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 05-12-2003 11:35 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the uk, it's almost certainly Cinemeccanicca Vic 8s, mainly because Rank installed them in just about all of the Odeons at one time, late '60s/early '70s, I think. Many, possibly most, of them never ran a foot of 70mm. In many of the installations it was simply not possible, no mag heads were fitted, no six channel sound installation, and, in later days, 35mm only platters, rollers, etc. A few Vic.Xs were installed by Odeon, Leicester Square had three of them when I visited the place, one of which is now at the Projected Picture Trust's Enigma Cinema at Bletchley Park.

At the same time ABC, the other large British chain, were using DP75s, But I'm sure they installed far less than Odeon. Gaumont had been taken over by Odeon by this time. There were some smaller chains, but very few of their houses would have had 70mm.

American machines are not common, I don't think I've ever seen one, but I think the BFI IMAX has a pair. Projection box visits don't seem to be possible there, so I've never seen them.

There was no British made 70mm machine, there hasn't even been a 35mm one for many years, there were rumors that Kalee were working on one at the time of their demise in 1958, but an advertisment for the new Rank Kalee 70mm projector, which I saw at Bletchley Park shows what is clearly a Vic.X; the ex. Leicester Square one was standing just a couple of metres away. Rank were the uk distributers for Cinemeccanicca equipment.

American 35mm machines were not so uncommon at one time, but most new installations today are Cinemeccanicca or Kinoton.

The older installations, from the '50s and early '60s were normally DP70s, but there weren't as many of them. My one experience of running 70mm was on a pair of DP70s, or rather half a pair, we were using two operators, so I only got to run one machine. For some reason, the print came in on loads of small reels, from memory, I think some of them were only about a thousand feet, so we had changeovers every few minutes

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 05-12-2003 01:01 PM      Profile for Per Hauberg   Author's Homepage   Email Per Hauberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, Steven - Not only did Rank install Vic 8's in great numbers - As far as i know, they even took out DP 70's to put in the Vic's (Dominion among others), just because they should really show their own import. [Eek!]

p.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 05-12-2003 02:15 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Per wrote:

quote:
Yeah, Steven - Not only did Rank install Vic 8's in great numbers - As far as i know, they even took out DP 70's to put in the Vic's (Dominion among others), just because they should really show their own import.

Vic 8s also replaced DP70s a few years ago at the former MOMI cinema, now NFT3.

I once heard it said that the reason Rank installed dual gauge machines in so many of the Odeons was to get round some sort of import restriction (tariff or quota) which applied at that time to 35mm machines but not to 70mm, which were treated as a special case; a bit like the Astoria running Around the World in Eighty Days in 34mm to get around some British films quota on 35mm. I don't know if this is correct, but they certainly installed many Vic. 8s on which they never intended to run 70mm. Does anyone else know?

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Darren Briggs
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: York, UK
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 05-12-2003 03:09 PM      Profile for Darren Briggs   Author's Homepage   Email Darren Briggs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rank installed may 35/70 Vic 8's as it was cheaper to import the 35/70 machine into the u.k. than buy a 35mm only mech form the U.K.
As no one in the U.K. made a 35/70mm mech, you could do the imort and have a TAX break. If someone did make a british 35/70 mech, the Vic 8's would of been very expensice to import compared to a British made Mech.

I guess many DP's were taken out and replaced by Vic8's, as the VIc 8 is more friendly for automation use, as on a DP you can't change apperture plates without stoping the mech. One major
diss-advantage i say.

I was told the NFT put Vic 8's into NFT 3 as NFT 2 had them and it made sence to keep the machines the same, and the DP's in NFT 1 were on the cards to be replaced too.

The BFI IMAX has 2 Century JJ's, serviced by Future Projections of London. A very nice IMAX box indeed. Even has a Leather sofa!!

Darren

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 05-12-2003 03:18 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Was the Westrex 5000 not 35/70 and built here?

At any rate, up here the Fedi 35/70 XT was popular, but only really because Scotlands largest chain, Caledonian Associated Cinemas, had a quantity of them. Outside of CAC you had Odeon and ABC, and you already have the Odeon and ABC history with Cinemec and Phillips/Kinoton.

All the 70mm installs we've done in recent memory have used the Century JJ. Save for the 8/70 stuff which is Balantyne. The Westrex/Christie Epic was trialled in that application but proved to unreliable.

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Darren Briggs
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: York, UK
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 05-12-2003 03:33 PM      Profile for Darren Briggs   Author's Homepage   Email Darren Briggs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Think your right about the Westrex, must of not been around when rank were buying the many Vic 8's though.

Have Fun
Darren

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Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 05-12-2003 04:55 PM      Profile for Ben Wales   Email Ben Wales   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes there was a British Built and Designed 35/70mm Projector in the late 60's
This was the Westrex 5000 (owned by Litton Industries) in 1968 (approx).

We belived Westrex produced this projector with the aim to stop Rank importing the RK60 (Victoria 8) into the UK as the home market with many independant cinemas were looking to install 70mm in the late 1960's, but only Star/Classic Cinemas and a hand full of Cinemas had the full Westrex 70mm installation, I belive that were about 12 sets built in the Uk and several were in the US were the full 70mm kit.

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