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Author Topic: What's the best way to find reel numbers? Jim Spohn Film Handler Posts: 95 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Jan 2003 posted 03-11-2003 02:42 PM                     I received a film that had no head or tail leaders on any reel. Its pretty easy to figure out the first and last reels but since the reel changes often happen at scene changes, you can't just match the head of a reel to the tail of another reel. What's the easiest way to figure out the reel numbers?.....Jim  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-11-2003 02:45 PM                     What's the film title? What audio formats are on the film?  |  IP: Logged Joe Beres Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 606 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 03-11-2003 02:48 PM                     Jim, forgive me if I am stating the obvious, but were the unattached leaders included with the shipment? If, by chance yes, are there any "i.d." frames left on the leaders? If, by chance yes, do they match the frames on the heads and tails of the reels? I am guessing it isn't that easy though. I've run into this situation before, and have had to resort to looking at a video and trying to match a shot on the tape to the shot on the film. It can be a long and tedious process, but I didn't have any other options. I know that I may not have been much help, but there may not be an easy solution here. What film is it? Where did the print come from, perhaps someone here has dealt with the print and could be of some assistance.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-11-2003 03:06 PM                        As a result of comments here on Film-Tech, and discussions in the Inter-Society Committee for the Enhancement of Cinema Presentation, it's likely that a secure website(s) may be set up with access to images of the first and last frames of each reel, at least for the major distributors. No details yet, but should be soon. If you still have the leaders, one positive way of matching the leaders to each reel is to use the unique magenta-colored edgeprint numbers that Kodak prints along the edge of print film. Each roll of 35mm raw stock VISION Color Print Film that Kodak manufactures has a unique edge number printed every metre or so along the edge, such as: 2383 803 074 0 27 20 K.ODAK 2003 http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/h1/sizesP.shtml Brad has also discussed the method of matching the modulation on the analog soundtracks as a double-check.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-11-2003 03:17 PM                     Nice to see someone is finally waking up to my idea for a website with ID frames. But a secure website??? Oh please! That's just stupid.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-11-2003 03:27 PM                        Evidently some distributors are concerned with even still images being available on a public website, especially before a movie's release. As you know, secure password-protected sites are already being used for shipping info, advertising, and promotional material, and would be the likely way to handle these images.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-11-2003 03:57 PM                     The average movie has between 150,000 and 200,000 frames. So big whoop de do if a dozen ID frames (most probably at low resolution) get out. The part about this that is so ridiculous is that there are always TONS of promotional pictures of the movies out way before the theatrical release, plus the frames at the ends of the reels are almost always useless to anyone other than a projectionist. Rarely do the ID frames have the actors in a position worthy of saving. Like I said, that's just stupid. Hey Daryl, think you can set us up a program so anytime a thread like this that discusses excessive studio bootlegging paranoia turns up that we could move it onto a secure server? Clearly this is a huge issue and we should make sure that even the discussions about how stupid these things are are protected from prying eyes.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 03-11-2003 04:21 PM                     Years ago when there was only one sound format, it was standard to find reel ID numbers and footage markers on the film itself. An examble was: 2A975 and 2B888. The "2A" was the first section of reel 2, and the 975 was the footage number from the head of that reel. The "2B" was the second section of reel 2, and the 888 was the footage number from the head of the second section. There was another numbering system that was being used, but I never paid much attention to it. Since the advent of SDDS, DD, and DTS, all the numbering systems fell by the wayside. Getting a reel with no leader or tail made it a big guessing game. I don't know if a partial reel ID could be superimposed on the SDDS track without driving the SDDS into default. Any comments?  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 03-11-2003 04:29 PM                        Warning: I'm going to have to lock this thread soon for security purposes. I've also added this thread to the Disallow: section of the robots.txt file so that it is not indexed by any search engines (since pirates are known to use search engines to find bootleg material).  |  IP: Logged Jim Spohn Film Handler Posts: 95 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Jan 2003 posted 03-11-2003 05:00 PM                     I finally was able to match up the reels by running them on my Moviloa, but it took a long time to do. I don't remember the title of the film. The leaders were not shipped with the film at all. Listening to the sound track made things easier than watching the picture because of the scene changes at the reel changes. I was asking the question not for this film but any film in the future that I may get like this. There are some very clever guys on this site and I thank all of you for your wisdom.  |  IP: Logged Bob Maar (Maar stands for Maartini) Posts: 28608 From: New York City & Newport, RI Registered: Feb 2001 posted 03-11-2003 05:01 PM                        You can always hide it in the Picture section of the joke forum.  |  IP: Logged Dustin Mitchell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1865 From: Mondovi, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-11-2003 05:08 PM                     For movies that are distributed by TES you can have them fax a sheet with pictures of the reel ends to you.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 03-11-2003 05:15 PM                        quote: As you know, secure password-protected sites are already being used for shipping info, advertising, and promotional material, and would be the likely way to handle these images. I also know that most projectionists don't have access to many of these sites and that most bookers (that do have access) won't appreciate after hours phone calls to their home to have a copy of the id frames from the secure website emailed to them. Now if they were to have it that any (or every) projectionist had access to the secure site, it would no longer be secure. Do you think that the 18 year old popcornjectionist that goes home and pirates movies with his DSL connection is going to protect the secure site's password if he thinks that it is worth pirating? Heck, when Mijo first started doing ad slicks via ftp, I was able to find a username and password to access the site using Google before they got around to faxing me the info. Anyway, if I was going to pirate a foot of frames I would probably just use frames from the trailers on Apple's website. They are high quality and I'd have a much better selection (more frames per feature) to pirate from. Hey, maybe the Apple Trailer site should be a secure site too.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-11-2003 08:52 PM                     If you have an SDDS player, you could run the reels and hook your laptop up to the processor. The SDDS alignment software will tell you the reel number and the footage count. If you have the DFP-2000 series (older models) you can open up the front panel and read it off the display on the inside of the unit. This all assumes you have an SDDS player to run the film on, though...  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 03-11-2003 08:57 PM                        If you want to do it that way, you could also use a DTS-6AD -- no laptop required. You don't even need the discs.  |  IP: Logged

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