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Author Topic: Sound in Tears of the Sun Don Bruechert Mmmmmmmmm, bird! Posts: 340 From: Manitowoc, WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003 posted 03-07-2003 08:48 AM                        Has anyone besides me noticed the sound mix in Tears of the Sun is really obnoxious?? I ran it this early am for "quality control" purposes in our SDDS house where it will begin its life, and I had to back the fader WAY down, and then trim some gain off the surrounds yet besides. Some of that war stuff was ripping my head off to the point of me having an earache at our "normal" (already reduced) level. Is it just this way on SDDS, or is DTS or SR that way too?  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 03-07-2003 09:35 AM                    I liked the sound in our DTS. Why alter what the film makers intended. Turning down the faders is one thing but why turn down the surrounds. I do know the digital tracks are running hot because I had a reel give me some problems last night and there was a drastic change in volume levels. I need to check that today to I may need to replace one of the reels.  |  IP: Logged Don Bruechert Mmmmmmmmm, bird! Posts: 340 From: Manitowoc, WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003 posted 03-07-2003 09:56 AM                        Maybe we had the same dramatic sound increase, because I had a very comfortable but loud volume setting going, and then from maybe reel 5 on when all the shooting started going big time the sound coming from the surrounds was right up there at the threshold of pain. I went up to the booth and backed the fader off some more, but then I couldn't hear the dialog. I backed the surrounds down so I could maintain a fader level that allowed the music and dialog to be at a "good but still loud" level while all the shooting isn't making everyone's ears bleed. I like my movies set considerably louder than I play them for the customers, and this was way over my tolerance level with my "normal" fader setting for the audience. I don't have to actually work a shift until Sunday night, and I assure you that had I left this as it was I would come in and find the other projectionists running this movie at a setting roughly equivalent to "4" because of customer complaints of noise, and then they will walk out the door complaining because they couldn't hear what was going on.... Anyway, that's the best logic I could provide  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-07-2003 11:03 AM                        Don, Sorry you are having problems with the soundtrack of "TEARS OF THE SUN". What is the sound format in SDDS? Is it the standard SDDS or SDDS-8? -Claude  |  IP: Logged Jonathan M. Crist Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 531 From: Hershey, PA, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 03-07-2003 11:57 AM                     Pictures like "Tears of the Sun" are the reason that I have a Symetrix unit on the main channel in my sound rack.  |  IP: Logged Don Bruechert Mmmmmmmmm, bird! Posts: 340 From: Manitowoc, WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003 posted 03-07-2003 12:53 PM                        I'm pretty sure that it's just standard SDDS - I don't recall the scoreboard listing it otherwise. I was quite excited to see the Matrix Reloaded was coming out in SDDS-8 and then I asked one of the guys who used to work in my place about the configuration of the system and he told me it was only setup for 6 of the 8 channels... bummer  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 03-07-2003 05:02 PM                        That's what volume controls are for! Ditto Daryl's comments about the DTS mix. We're running it here & it's outstanding. Our process is pretty simple. I sit in the auditorium during our screenings & set the level for comfortable dialogue. Everything else seems to follow nicely. It's when I go to a theatre & the dialogue is blasting that I know I'll wish I'd brought earplugs!  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 03-07-2003 08:06 PM                     After reading this thread, I decided to nip over and take a listen. Playback is Dolby SR analog at that location and the track sounded fine to me. Granted, I missed the first 2-1/2 reels. That sound system was tuned in February for the release of "Chicago." For that movie, as well as this one, the fader was right where I left it at the "7" mark. Perhaps tomorrow I will go up to the other location here and listen to it in Dolby SR-D. If I have a complaint about this movie it is that the cinematography is a little too shadowy.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 03-08-2003 02:21 PM                        quote: from Manny... If I have a complaint about this movie it is that the cinematography is a little too shadowy. Yah... it is pretty dark. Not aiming this at anyone, but if a theatre's got proper lighting, it shouldn't be a problem. Our lamp can pretty much punch holes in our screen, so the only thing I really noticed about the show was that it'll be a big problem for some drive-ins this Spring.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-11-2003 11:51 AM                        Let There Be Light!: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/pytlak/spring98.shtml Standard SMPTE 196M allows a range of 12 to 22 footlamberts for indoor theatres. Anything less than 12 footlamberts is "Film Done Wrong", and will give dull-looking images.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 03-11-2003 12:02 PM                     Thanks, John. But it is unclear from reading your post as to whether you have actually seen "Tears of the Sun" and, if so, are you suggesting that you didn't find the images to be a little on the dim side?  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 03-11-2003 12:14 PM                        The screen where I saw "Tears of the Sun" was VERY bright. Yet some of those darkly-shot scenes were very very dark. Speaking of "very bright", one thing I noticed during the movie was a pronounced "flicker" in bright areas of the image. Very distracting. This was like shutter flicker, not wavy xenon or something, and only noticeable in bright areas of scenes. In fact, in certain scenes with both dark and very bright areas, the bright areas seemed to be almost "jumping off the screen" from the pronounced flicker. This was the first show of the day, and it did seem like the flickering diminished some after a half hour or so into the film. There were no other anomalies with the image quality such as travel ghosting or anything like that. Projector is a late-model Christie, Christie lamphouse. Reading through other threads about shutter flicker, it seems the most likely causes of this are too much light, or possibly a hole burned in a shutter blade. ?? If there were a hole in a shutter blade, wouldn't there be other visible problems? Enquiring minds want to know.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 03-11-2003 12:22 PM                     Why couldn't it just be a mis-timed shutter? If any movie would reveal even a slight timing problem, it would be this movie. Lots of chiaroscuro in these scenes. Too much, if you ask me.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 03-11-2003 12:36 PM                        If a shutter blade has a hole in it you'll usually see severe ghosting that streaks through the image as an arc corresponding to the hole, or if the hole is large enough, one messed up picture (ie. really bad ghosting). I haven't seen this film yet, but if it has scenes that are so bright that the film is pretty much clear, some people will see a 2-blade shutter strobe, some people won't. That's where 3-blade shutters come in. edit: Basically this is the same as some people seeing flicker from 50Hz light bulbs, except at 48Hz -- even slower. Three blade shutters, which effectively run at 72Hz, aren't prone to this.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-11-2003 02:26 PM                        With a two-blade shutter at 24fps, most people start to notice the flicker in the highlights as the screen luminance approaches 25 footlamberts --- that's why SMPTE 196M specifies 22 footlamberts as an upper limit. At higher frame rates or with a three-blade shutter, higher luminance can be used without bothersome flicker. Incorrect shutter timing, or an inadequate shutter that does not completely block the light during the pulldown cycle will cause travel ghost (streaking of light areas in the image). Shutter timing does NOT affect flicker perception. I have projected prints from well-exposed negatives at 60 footlamberts using a three-blade shutter, and the images are amazingly good, with vivid highlights, excellent shadow detail and bright colors. But for normal prints, the added shadow detail may show things in the shadows that the cinematographer and director did not want the audience to see! So theatres should follow the SMPTE 196M specification of 12 to 22 footlamberts.  |  IP: Logged

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