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Author Topic: The why, how and because of film work... Alex Grasic Film Handler Posts: 90 From: Toronto, ON, Canada Registered: Jul 2002 posted 01-01-2003 01:35 AM                     I think there is a real need to put out exactly how film handling should be done for all the rookies who refuse to follow along in doing the job properly. I've been to some theatres where there 'craftmanship' is just crap and even in my theatre, there are people who are stuck on doing things their own way...I just want everyone to put out what they think is the best way to do any aspect of the job from makeups to breakdowns to threading and to cleaning. Anything you want to add...if there's something that's posted that you disagree with...say so...but don't just say "I disagree". Tell us why!! Thanks everyone 1. DO NOT chop ID frames when making up prints. 2. When adding ANY automation cues, ie: foils, add a peice of clear splicing tape underneath it. 3. WASH YOUR HANDS before handling any film (may be 'of course' for some of us but for others...I don't know). We don't want to see your fried chicken dinner while we're watching the movie. 4. When breaking down prints, REMOVE the splicing tape from the splice and always reattach heads & tails with a single peice of spicing tape... NEXT??!?  |  IP: Logged Josh Kirkhart Expert Film Handler Posts: 165 From: Austin/Houston, TX, USA Registered: Nov 2001 posted 01-01-2003 03:50 AM                     Hasn't this been covered? By all means if your company and trainer does not supply you with the know how or even a guide then a 'do's and don'ts' of the booth may be appropriate for your booth. Reference frames are a small debate on the forums(not so much for the reel to reel guys). Some , like me believe reference frames are important if you are running anything larger than a twin screen. No matter how dedicated you are there will come a time you can not be there to break down a print. Reference frames make sure that person has less of a chance of screwing up(thats of'course if they cannot read your plainly numbered heads and tails). I also believe its very important to second run houses that often get horribly broken down prints. If the person who built the print knew just that step(reference frames) and nothing else, the print can be put back together properly for the show. Otherwise he/she is in the dark. I think this site has all the information your looking for in many similar threads and in the directories on the menu bar to your left. You obviously care for great presentation or you would not be here, so you must know most of this. Show your fellow employees that are closed off to learning that you know your stuff and enforce it. Good luck and keep 'film done right'  |  IP: Logged Alex Grasic Film Handler Posts: 90 From: Toronto, ON, Canada Registered: Jul 2002 posted 01-01-2003 08:41 AM                     To the topic of reference frames, if they were meant to remain on the head or tail, then I'm sure they would have just attached a dupe 'reference frame' somewhere else in the head or tail. The reason why that frame is on the reel is because it was intended to be on screen with the rest of the print. Some people are probably saying, "it's just one frame" but does anyone remember Knockaround guys? or Not Another Teen Movie? From what I remember there were several reel changes mid sentence and cutting the 'reference frame' out caused part of the dialogue to be lost. I can't help but take those as signs that distributors do not want anyone to cut out ANY frames whatsoever. Am I wrong about this?  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-01-2003 08:58 AM                        We can debate all we want about reference frames, but the bottom line is this: any film editor who places reel changes in the middle of a scene or line of dialogue (or, worse, a piece of music) is just asking for that scene to be butchered by exhibitors. This can happen in any number of ways: theatres with exciter-lamp changeover systems, platter or large-reel houses which leave multiple reference frames attached to the leaders, "souvenir collectors," badly done changeovers, cheap splicing tape that can't be peeled and thus requires frames to be cut off, etc. Personally, I do leave one reference frame attached to both the head and tail leader of each reel (except the head of R1, of course) when making up new prints for platter shows. I can understand other viewpoints, but my reasoning is this: the reference frame isn't for the benefit of the first person to break down the print--it is for the benefit of the next theatre which runs that print, so that they can be sure that the leaders are attached to the proper reels. When running older prints, I have always appreciated having a means to confirm that I am running the film in the proper order. Also, the loss of two frames at every reel change is quite negligible; in a changeover booth, I know that I am personally only accurate to within a couple of frames, anyway. I know that Brad disagrees, and I agree that it would be preferable to show every frame for the first run of a print, but I am glad that most people from whom I have received used prints with cut leaders have followed the reference-frame convention. Much more important to me, though, is that the leaders be re-attached with good-quality clear splicing tape (not the white junk, not masking tape, not Scotch tape, not duct tape). Single-sided splices are fine and should run through most projectors, but I really hate spending time peeling off junk splicing tape and re-attaching leaders for once-only shows. Also, either USE REEL BANDS or TAPE DOWN LEADERS before shipping a print out! Anyway, all these topics have been discussed (there's a thread on "breakdown etiquette" or something similar that I'm too lazy to look up right now). And what's up with putting automation cues _over_ splicing tape? I can't think of any reason do this except if the cues are difficult to remove (foil peels off easily; the barcode stickers don't), but I can think of many reasons not to do this (in particular, automation systems which require multiple cues in a row to perform certain functions). I admit that I don't remove the cues when I ship out prints from automated booths, but there are never more than two cues (one at the start of the credits and one at the end of the show), neither of which is visible on screen and both of which are easily found and removed if the print goes to another automated booth.  |  IP: Logged Ken Lackner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1907 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 01-01-2003 11:06 AM                     Big Sky optical cues are very difficult to remove, and do leave a residue behind on the film. Excellent reason to lay down a piece of splicing tape first. Although, many theaters that use Big Sky automation are configured to read several cues in a row (one cue on each frame line, for several consecutive frame lines) to perform ceratin functions, and this would make for a very jumpy scene as all that splicing tape went through the gate! I suppose it all depends on what kind of cue tape you use, and how many cues are required.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-01-2003 11:24 AM                     Scott, Did your print come with those cues on them? If not, take em off...who are you to add them for everyone else? Generally, the key is to return the print in the manner in which it was received and that wasn't with cue tape. The only reason I buy into the lack of leaving an ID frame is that it mucks up the sound sync for nearly a second. The lost of visual information is of no consequence. This industry should devise a way to repeat the last couple of frames in the leader to nip this one once and for all. If dialogue got lost in mid sentance than adding two more frames or 1/12 of a second wouldn't have restored it...that is less than 1/10 of a second and you can't form half a sentance in that amount of time...there was something else amiss there. Steve  |  IP: Logged Adam Fraser Master Film Handler Posts: 499 From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA Registered: Dec 2001 posted 01-01-2003 12:53 PM                        I believe that removing cue tape would be important for the next theatre also. What if the next guy builds up the print and has automation with cue sensors but does not use cues on every print. That makes him have to babysit the print to make sure that things are going to happen when they are supposed to. One person's curtain opening cue could be someone else's automations show end and shut down the projector cue.  |  IP: Logged Jesse Skeen Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1517 From: Sacramento, CA Registered: Aug 2000 posted 01-01-2003 04:50 PM                     Cover cues with splicing tape?? That would be as distracting as putting a splice there- cues should NOT be seen or heard by the audience in any way- if I'm not in the booth, I don't want to be able to tell where you've put the cues.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-01-2003 05:16 PM                     There should be 2 fames left attached to the head and tail peices(kodak notes for reel people some time ago) I will not accept a print that has the leaders removed and no ID frame I don't have time to correct some idiots mistakes of wrong leaders attached  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-01-2003 05:34 PM                     Gordon, sometimes you amaze me. Quoting old documents 10, 20, 30 years ago really doesn't affect people too specifically in today's booths. TWO FRAMES!!! While I don't support the idea of leaving frames on the leaders, I DO understand WHY some people do it. However there is no excuse in the world to leave two. Not one single valid reason.  |  IP: Logged Andy Muirhead Master Film Handler Posts: 323 From: Galashiels, Scotland Registered: Dec 2000 posted 01-01-2003 07:13 PM                     I agree with the practice of placing cue markers over splicing tape - Rather that than removing any frames as in my experience all markers I have seen leave a very sticky residue, much worse than tape. And what is it with some people that run their cues to about 6-12 frames?? And just to annoy you further, wrap them around the edge of the film. Are they just making sure the sensor spots them or what? I dunno what kind of automation these guys are running, but even my crap system can sense 5mm of foil and act accordingly. I don't know where these prints come from, but they come pretty regular, in fact regular enough that I suspect it must be a UK chain, I see so many prints marked up this way I can't believe it's some renegade independant!  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-01-2003 07:38 PM                     The reasons for leaving two frames was so that there are many who are operators that cut off a frame and pitch it hopefully the next guy has one to check with As for theatres that are bad Alex's is one of the worst for just leaving the heads and tails loose in cans with no info as to waht reel is which brocken down where ever with no regard for cue marks I know of several second run houses that will not accept prints form that particular Toronto Cineplex theatre  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 01-01-2003 10:27 PM                     Alex, if the operators "refuse" to do things they are supposed to do, simply remove those operators from the booth. That's what I do.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-01-2003 10:36 PM                     Heck Gordon, if they are just running the reels down and chopping wherever they feel like and not reattaching leaders, a professional could STILL re-assembled it with relative ease. Now I am not condoning that kind of practice, but this sort of does happen and it's up to the projectionist at the receiving end of the theater to be skilled enough to get the show on screen until a new print can be delivered and the previous theater be billed for the cost of a new print.  |  IP: Logged Alex Grasic Film Handler Posts: 90 From: Toronto, ON, Canada Registered: Jul 2002 posted 01-02-2003 01:22 AM                     Gord, you must have the wrong Cineplex theatre. Every print that leaves our theatre has both heads and tails properly reattached to EVERY reel. I make sure of it every Monday morning before they're picked up. The only thing I may be guilty of is sticking with Brad in the belief that NO reference frames should be cut off of any reel. BTW, Gord, where would you get the idea that these prints with unattached leaders are coming from my theatre? Just curious. Over the holidays, I've worked at a couple of theatres and I haven't seen that happen at any of them.  |  IP: Logged

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