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Author Topic: End of NATIONAL Carbons... John Eickhof Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 588 From: Wendell, ID USA Registered: Jan 2000 posted 11-26-2002 11:05 PM                        I have received notice that effective Jan. 1, 2003, the arc carbon line known as National Specialty Carbons will be discontinued! They are presently selling existing inventory. Production will cease the first of the year! It is sad to see an icon like National become history! I know there are many out there who have pushed Nationals through some of the best carbon arc lamps made!! I will surely miss them!! I was proud to be a National dealer for many years!  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 11-26-2002 11:33 PM                        Welcome back John! This was briefly mentioned here.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 11-26-2002 11:38 PM                        It is sad to see the end of that era. National was one of those "loyalty" brands that made it hard to consider anything else. Either that, or everything else was so ie that making the choice was easy. Too bad they couldn't have transitioned to xenon, and carried over the same quality. Does anyone know how this will affect operators of those old carbon arc searchlights? Last time I got up close to one, it was running on Nationals & the owner said the number of available suppliers was shrinking.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-26-2002 11:41 PM                        So does this mean that Marble is the only remaining supplier of carbons in the US?  |  IP: Logged Ken Layton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1452 From: Olympia, Wash. USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 11-27-2002 12:14 AM                     Yes, what about the carbon arc searchlights? There are still plenty of advertising searchlights out there and they (mostly) all use carbons. There are still people using carbon arc followspots in stage shows, too.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-27-2002 07:41 AM                        I don't know about the searchlights (I'd love to run one someday), but followspots seem to burn carbon much more slowly than film projectors and also probably aren't used anywhere near as much (how many places run followspots for 2+ hours per day, every day?), so the market is probably smaller. Hopefully the carbon manufacturers will realize that they aren't going to be gaining any more customers and will only lose existing accounts as they convert to xenon; thus, the best that they can do is provide excellent quality and service to existing customers in hopes that they will feel less need to convert. I wouldn't want to run carbon all day every day, and I know that xenon is cleaner and healthier, but I do enjoy running carbon booths and hope that the existing installations don't feel the need to convert anytime soon.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 11-27-2002 08:22 AM                     We converted to xenon in Oct. 2001. The last 18 months we used them Nationals sputtered, popped, hissed and produced the worst light imaginable. About 65% did not have a functional core and made only dim yellow light. And that was when we could get them. After a long and excellent history they are doing the right thing after throwing away all their quality control. Undoubtedly though the production space devoted to carbons is much needed for products for which there is a very much larger demand. National is a division of Morgan Specialty Graphite.  |  IP: Logged Robert E. Allen Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1078 From: Checotah, Oklahoma Registered: Jul 2002 posted 11-27-2002 04:45 PM                     I would like to learn who is manufacturing a good carbon these days as when I get my project up and going next year it is my intention to use a carbon arc changeover system. I have compared xenon to carbon light over the years and have come to the conclusion that carbon provides a "warmer" light with more vivid colors than xenon which, IMO, is a "cold" blue light. The vast majority of xenon screens I've seen have been underlit. Yes, it'll cost me about $2,500 a year more to operate with carbons but I want to give my patrons the best possible picture and sound in my single screener. The corporate big boys have been emphasizing cutting overhead to the point that they seem to make that the primary target in their 'plexes and have totally ignored the quality of their houses screen performances. So, since National is biting the dust, if anyone can suggest a good alternative I'd really appreciate it.  |  IP: Logged Gordon Bachlund Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 696 From: Monrovia, CA, USA Registered: Aug 1999 posted 11-27-2002 05:24 PM                        Robert, I am researching carbon suppliers and will have some suggestions soon. I have purchased some Marble Double Eagle carbons (made in Japan) and am encouraged. I'll keep you posted.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 11-28-2002 12:57 AM                     Films have been color timed for correct color with xenon for quite some time and will actually be as the film makers intended when projected using xenon. There is no longer any practical reason to beat your head against the failing supply and quality wall of carbon. We used Marble as often as we could get them because they were far better than Nationals but they got inconsistent in quality too. If carbons had been in good supply and of respectable quality we would not have changed, it is now too late.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 11-28-2002 12:06 PM                    Re: Advertising searchlights I haven't seen a good one in a long time. Those units with multiple little dancing xenon lamps are so pathetically dim compared to the big WWII carbon arc searchlights that you can see for 20 miles. I remember once asking an operator of such a machine what sort of current levels he was running at and it didn't seem that much different than a large theatre lamp and if that's the case then it really must be a function of the huge mirror. I wonder if any of those have been converted to xenon and keeping the high light output.  |  IP: Logged Jon Bartow Master Film Handler Posts: 287 From: Massachusetts Registered: Nov 1999 posted 11-28-2002 02:37 PM                     take a look at that casino in Vegas (the Mirage?) the big piramid. It has a couple of dozen xenon lights on the top aiming straight up. I don't remember exactly how many there, but I do remember that they are all 7k bulbs. Supposedly the beam of light can be easily seen by the crew on the space shuttle. Take a look at it Here Notice the well armored person holding a xenon bulb over a currently running lamp. What's he doing? Inspecting the bulb?  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 11-29-2002 12:42 AM                     >> that casino in Vegas (the Mirage?) the big piramid. It has a couple of dozen xenon lights on the top aiming straight up. I don't remember exactly how many there, but I do remember that they are all 7k bulbs.<< The casino in question is the Luxor, and there is quite a bit more than a couple dozen 7KW xenons on the tip. There are FIFTY 7000w PerkinElmer xenon lamps on the tip of the structure, though they haven't run all 50 since around 1996 when the FAA told Luxor to reduce the light level...They do run them all on the 4th of July and New Years Eve, however. When all 50 are lit the beam can be seen on a clear day as far away as Los Angeles and Denver... -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 11-29-2002 10:06 PM                       quote: it didn't seem that much different than a large theatre lamp and if that's the case then it really must be a function of the huge mirror. I don't know what the current was, but every one of the GE searchlights I've seen ran 16mm positives. The largest H.I. projection carbon was 13.6mm, which could be run as much as 160 amperes.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 11-29-2002 10:25 PM                    Aaron said: When all 50 are lit the beam can be seen on a clear day as far away as Los Angeles and Denver... I wonder if, when seen from so far away, an angle off the vertical is apparent due to curvature of the earth.  |  IP: Logged

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