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Author Topic: Red Tint on Godfather 2 Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 11-20-2002 11:28 PM                        We just got a print of Godfather Part II and it seems to have a red tint to it. Yet the subtitles are perfectly white. The print itself even looks red running through the projector. Is this some sort of fading? What could cause this?  |  IP: Logged Josh Jones Redhat Posts: 1207 From: Plano, TX Registered: Apr 2000 posted 11-20-2002 11:37 PM                        Earlier eastman prints from before 1982 suffer from dye fading. Basically the cyan and yellow layers of the emulsion begin to fade, leaving red behind. Storage conditions have a big impact on dye fading. In 1982 Kodak developed LPP film stock which as far as we know doesnt fade nearly as bad as the pre '82 stuff. Josh  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 11-21-2002 12:18 AM                        I'm sure this print was stored improperly. Last week we had a print of Godfather 1 that had vinegar syndrome. We quickly sent that back for a reissue print from 5 years ago.  |  IP: Logged Mathew Molloy Master Film Handler Posts: 357 From: The Santa Cruz Mountains Registered: Nov 2000 posted 11-21-2002 04:44 AM                     Sounds like the same two prints I received in Seattle a couple years ago. I remember getting a replacement for the red print as well - but ran the vinegared print with no problems.  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 11-21-2002 04:57 AM                     Joe, Stick a Yellow/Green filter over the lens and most of the red tint will go away. It will colour the white background of the subtitles slightly greenish but not objectionable. I have 65mm diam filter that fits over the lens of the Pro 35 nicely and a bit of sticky tape holds it in place. Lindsay  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 11-21-2002 08:08 AM                        If the print was made prior to about 1982, incorporated coupler print films will typically fade in a red-magenta direction, especially if they were stored improperly. Most prints in release are stored in unconditioned warehouse conditions, not the cool and dry conditions specified by SMPTE Recommended Practice RP131. "Vinegar Syndrome" is often a sign that triacetate film was stored under hot/humid conditions. As noted, Kodak first introduced print films having much improved dye stability in 1979, with total conversion in 1982: Kodak films 1960-1979 Kodak films 1980-present I thought some new prints of the Godfather series were made on the much more stable Kodak print films since then. Likewise, weren't there some new dye transfer prints made?  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 11-21-2002 01:24 PM                    The whites stay white because there was no dye there to start with so it remains unaffected by the fading. Typically, the cyan dye fades most quickly, followed by yellow, with the magenta dye being the most robust. Thus the colors shift towards magenta. Because the fading varies across the image with the specific dye content there is no way to correct for it with a filter although you might find it subjectively more pleasing to use one. Fading sometimes can vary across the image depending on how it was stored. I have an old beat up mag/optical print with severe fading and shrinkage. Back when it could still make it through a projector (no longer possible) the fading actually pulsated which suggests the rolls spent many years without being moved and part of it was warmer than the other.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 11-21-2002 01:42 PM                        Steve Kraus wrote: "...the fading actually pulsated which suggests the rolls spent many years without being moved and part of it was warmer than the other." Yes, "convolution repeats" can happen, especially when the film case is stored near a heat source or has the sun shine on it daily for years without being moved. Another possibility is that the poor storage conditions (hot and humid) caused "vinegar syndrome", and the acid vapors tended to settle, affecting one side of the roll more than the other. The acetic acid vapors from "vinegar syndrome" can hurt dye stability. Vented storage in cool and dry conditions, or using Molecular Sieves in sealed containers, is recommended. See SMPTE Recommended Practice RP131.  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-28-2003 01:48 AM                        The IMDB says that The Godfather was mono, but the 1997 re-release had DTS stereo. Was the optical track of the 1997 re-release still mono? Is the DTS version the only stereo version of The Godfather?  |  IP: Logged Hillary Charles Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 748 From: York, PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 08-28-2003 07:40 AM                     It would be nice to find an IB Technicolor print of that movie to run in place of the faded one.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-28-2003 08:09 AM                        quote: It would be nice to find an IB Technicolor print of that movie to run in place of the faded one. Or some new prints on Kodak VISION Color Print Film. Were all the prints from the original 1974 release dye transfer? Or was there a mix of dye transfer and incorporated coupler print film (5381? 5383?)  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-28-2003 12:26 PM                     quote: The IMDB says that The Godfather was mono, but the 1997 re-release had DTS stereo. Was the optical track of the 1997 re-release still mono? One would assume that the optical (and digital) tracks were remixed for stereo. I would venture a guess that there may have been some 35mm and 70mm mag stereo prints of the original as well. -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 08-28-2003 02:39 PM                     quote: I would venture a guess that there may have been some 35mm and 70MM mag stereo prints of the orginal as well. "The Godfather" and "Godfather, Part 2" were originally released in 35mm IB Tech. (Flat / Mono) only. Both films were never released in the states in the 70MM format. The new stereo sound tracks for the prints and DVDs. Were created and remixed by going back to the original sound elements at the studio. In doing this they updated the soundtrack for the Digital preservation of the film. Paramount has done this on many of their films for DVD release.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 08-28-2003 06:22 PM                        dts Stereo as in digital sound from dts discs or as in optical sound? There is also an analog format called dts Stereo which is basically the same as Dolby Stereo. It is very popular in Asia, but I do not know if it is regularly used to encode optical tracks on films here.  |  IP: Logged Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 08-28-2003 07:21 PM                        DTS stereo (optical): I can't explain why, -but I seem to remember, this is the only thing, DTS did not get well away with. It just didn't sound good. System long gone by, I believe. Per  |  IP: Logged

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