Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Outdoor winter storage of electronics

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Operations » Film Handlers' Forum » Outdoor winter storage of electronics (Page 1)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Author

Topic: Outdoor winter storage of electronics

Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 11-02-2002 01:55 PM

How bad of an idea would it be to store video tape machines in a shed over the winter? I would store them inside, but I just dont have the room. How hard would the cold be on the electronics and mechanisms in the machines? Would rust be a problem?

Josh

| IP: Logged

Adam Fraser
Master Film Handler

Posts: 499
From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 11-02-2002 02:28 PM

I would think that the moisture would be much more troublesome than the cold on the electronics. Which would also cause rust and corrosion.

| IP: Logged

Jeff Stricker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 481
From: Calumet, Mi USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 11-02-2002 03:16 PM

Josh, I've stored a lot of electronics in my storage barn. Providing things are dry, you will have good luck. If you bring things in from the cold, allow them to come to room temperature and condensation to dry before powering up.

Condensation can cause leakage problems on hi impedance circuits, and electrolytic capacitors "freeze" up in cold temps and need to warm up before they start acting like capacitors again. (Just becaue condensation is gone from the outside doesn't mean that it's off the circuit boards inside the case)

| IP: Logged

John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 11-02-2002 03:52 PM

Bag them in plastic, preferably airtight. Garbage bags would probably be sufficient; at any rate better than nothing.

--jhawk

| IP: Logged

Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 11-02-2002 04:55 PM

Thanks for the advice guys.

Josh

| IP: Logged

Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-02-2002 05:28 PM

If you can find some of those little silica gel decicant packs that are often packed in electronics cartons to absorb moisture it might be a good idea.

If you save up a few of them in a plastic bag and then bake them in a hot oven you can rejuvinate them and use them over and over again.

It couldn't hurt, anyway.

| IP: Logged

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 11-02-2002 06:54 PM

I'm not too sure about bagging them up. I have bagged things up in supposedly in air tight plastic bags, only to come back some time later and find things rusted. I don't know of any trash can bags that are air tight. The thing is, they still breath, and if moisture gets in, (which it will) there is no place for it to escape as atmosphere conditions change. If you could find an absolutely airtight container, that would be a way to go.

If you use an airtight container of some sort, release the pressure/vacuum first before an attempt is made to remove the lid.

With positive pressure, your face print will soon be in the cover. Been there....

And yes, make sure the equipment comes up to room temperature and is completely moisture free-before it is powered up.

If you do want to bag them up, do as Randy suggests. Get some silica gel desiccant and check it on a regular basis as needed. I would guess you would also be in good shape once it drops below the dewpoint and stays below that point.

| IP: Logged

Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-02-2002 06:56 PM

Josh,

Take Randy's suggestion as absolute law. Condensation can cause lots of damage, expecially on metal part (where moisture will tend to condense first). You don't want to wrap anything in plastic that will be in an environment where the temp will drop significantly later. They sell larger bags of silica desiccant in hardware stores designed to extract moisture from basements -- they are fine for your equipment bags.

One thing I found helpful is to take a hairdryer and blow hot air into the bag before sealing it. The air passing through the heat coils of the dryer will act as a dehumidifier and will reduce moisture in the air that you are blowing into the bag. You can then seal the bag with the silica packets and you won't have to worry about moisture condensing on the component as the temp drops.

Frank

| IP: Logged

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 11-02-2002 07:03 PM

Frank has a very good idea. I am confident it'll be adequate in your area. But remember, the packets will eventually become useless unless they are dried out in a low-temperature oven or something like that on an occasional basis.

| IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-02-2002 10:58 PM

The only way a air tight bag would help is if they were evacuated to a vacum before sealing as airborne mositure inside the bag would condense as it is a macro climate inside the bag

| IP: Logged

Sam Hunter
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 779
From: West Monroe, LA, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 11-02-2002 11:44 PM

I would also be wary of pest as well as moisture.
Place whatever you are storing in somekind of sealed or partly sealed container and also maybe run a electric heater during the winter to help with the moisture. Keeping the enviroment as stable as possible will help condensation from forming.

------------------
Samual Hunter Sr.

KC5ZSL

| IP: Logged

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 11-03-2002 12:13 AM

Frank suggested:
>The air passing through the heat coils of the dryer will act
>as a dehumidifier and will reduce moisture in the air that you
>are blowing into the bag.

No it won't. When you heat air the relative humidity drops because just as the term implies, RH is a measure of how much moisture is present vs. how much can it hold and since hot air can hold more than cold air the RH drops. But as soon as it cools back down the RH will return to the level it was before since you really haven't removed any moisture; it's all still there.

Relative humidity, BTW, is what we feel and what causes condensation. The reason things seem drier in winter isn't because the RH outside is particularly low but because that same air heated up indoors is now capable of holding a lot more moisture and if you don't add any then the relative humidity will be low--simply because the air could hold more than it's got. So in that sense heating the air dries it out. But only as long as it stays heated!

| IP: Logged

Matthew Bailey
Master Film Handler

Posts: 461
From: Port Arthur,TX
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 11-03-2002 01:49 AM

You could probably wrap thing up in sleeping bags or thick blankets.
Also you might use a space heater on low setting or wrap the equipment in an electric blanket. However,I have concerns about leaving heat producing stuff like that on unattended.

| IP: Logged

Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-03-2002 11:22 AM

Hmmm, Steve....then I guess the reason we have had success was because of the bags of silica that we put in the garbage bags; the hair dryer wasn't really doing much of anything. Good to know. Next time around we can eliminate blow-drying everything. I suppose that idea would only be effective if we were using a dehumidifier to put dehumidified air into the bags. Then again, if the silic disicant is keeping the equipment dry, then we don't need to worry about drying the air at all. Yet I would imagine that we should still be conscious of the humidity level on the day we pack everything up. Packing it on a day when it's 98% wouldn't be a good idea -- the silica bags would have to absorb that much more moisture. And Paul's right -- those bags do become ineffective (I think ours said after 6 months). But they can be rejuvinated -- just follow the instructions.

Frank

| IP: Logged

John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 11-03-2002 05:29 PM

You can get big bags of dessicant at any crafts store. They use the stuff to make dried flowers.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.