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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Silver Paint Pen for splice ID :evil: (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Silver Paint Pen for splice ID :evil:
Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-31-2002 10:58 PM      Profile for Kenneth Wuepper   Email Kenneth Wuepper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tonight I opened the cases of film for Men In Black 2, yes it is second run. The films were like spaghetti in the cases and there were 2 reels in the 3 reel can and 3 reels and the "discs" in a 4 reel can. So far, nothing very unusual.

BUT!!!!!

The last theatre had used clear splicing tape so it was hard for the operator to find the reel splices I guess. On the frame lines, on both sides of the splicing tape, there was a silver paint streak like you get from one of those paint pens. Now I supose that this would have been ok BUT!!! The paint was not dry when that splice was spooled onto the platter so, you guessed it, there are silver blotches on the two wraps on either side of the splice. These blotches of silver paint are on the emulsion side and are in the projected image area.

How tragic! Another fine print is damaged.

Happy Halloween!

KEN

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 11-01-2002 01:55 AM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
My absolute favorite silver marking pens are the ones that not only destroy the projected image area, but also set off the cue detector! House lights, dowser, and intermission music for every reel. Weee!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-01-2002 05:34 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Eprad actually made an interesting paint pen marker holder that worked quite well for preventing the ink from "leaking" down onto the film. However the only way to be CERTAIN it would mark the edge only was to hold it upside down. Then of course the film should not be wound back up for at least a full minute. Still, why people even need to mark the films is beyond me. There are so many other tricks, such as marking the "fill line" on the reel or just "feeling for the splice" that work fine and dandy.


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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-01-2002 06:12 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At least one Big Theatre Chain (tm) whose name is a Three Letter Acronym (TLA) supposedly has a policy that reel changes are supposed to be marked with silver paint marker (which I believe is worse than zebra tape). The original poster is probably seeing the effects of this.

Everyone I know just uses clear tape and has no problems with platter breakdowns.

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John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 11-01-2002 06:46 AM      Profile for John Anastasio   Author's Homepage   Email John Anastasio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I only use clear tape and have never had any problem feeling the edges of the film as the splices go through my fingers during breakdown, as Brad says.

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Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-01-2002 07:12 AM      Profile for Kenneth Wuepper   Email Kenneth Wuepper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, this operator used clear splicing tape but painted a big silver line on both sides of the splice along the frame line.

It was a really great job of handling film! The leadres were spaghetti in the can. Two of the leaders were stuck on in reverse, image out and tail in. All of the leaders were "tacked on" with a square inch of hand torn masking tape which bled adhesive into the emulsion side of the film. (the IPA cleaned that up nicely)

Is there anything that is safe for the image that will remove this silver paint? Are all of our patrons doomed to see those big black blotches in the center of the screen this week?

Your help is greatly appreciated. KEN

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 11-01-2002 07:20 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone want to start a list of items that should be completely banned from any and all booths?

White Shoe Polish
Liquid Paper
Splice Tape that disintegrates and leaves adhesive behind
on peeling--usually white
Join Marking Tapes (strips of tape designed to be folded around
the edge to identify joins)
Masking Tape (except for non film use)

How about opaque splicing tape in general?


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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 11-01-2002 08:56 AM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As you know, old habits are hard to break sometimes. When I started at my current theater (with a three letter acronym), all the reel splices were marked pretty aggresively (or excessively) with silver paint pens. I took over the build ups at the theater, and I've been slowly reducing the amount of silver paint on the prints, even "forgetting" to mark two or three splices. It's interesting to see that everyone is slowing down when they break down and taking their time and LOOKING harder to find the splices. I'm not implying that it's hard to see them, only that they weren't looking for the splices before - they were looking for the paint! I help them out and show them little tricks every once in a while and sort of nudge them along. In a month or two, I should be able to throw the silver paint pens away, and no one will miss them.

Mark

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 11-01-2002 09:45 AM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken,

A can of smoker’s lighter fuel on a cotton bud will remove those marking pen deposits and tape gum. Also kept on the rewind bench Isopropyl Alcohol for cleaning, but it is flammable!

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-01-2002 10:22 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Does anyone want to start a list of items that should be completely banned from any and all booths?
.
.
.
Join Marking Tapes (strips of tape designed to be folded around
the edge to identify joins)

If you are referring to CPI Edge Mark tape, I find it quite useful. If it were totally up to me and everyone cared about film as much as I do, I wouldn't use it, but it is certainly better than zebra tape or shoe polish (or whiteout, paint pens, etc...).

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Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-01-2002 12:11 PM      Profile for Kenneth Wuepper   Email Kenneth Wuepper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Bernard,

Thanks for the lighter fluid information. I believe that it is also a burning agent as well as the existing IP Alcohol.

There is a can of WD-40 in the booth. It works well for getting the chewing gum off the floor when the downstairs folks have it on their shoes.

The nature of splices is such that they can be "felt" with relative ease and the pack level tape inside the reel flange lets you know when to look and if you missed it.

Thanks for the help, fellows.

KEN

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Joseph Pandolfi
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Milford, CT.
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 11-01-2002 01:31 PM      Profile for Joseph Pandolfi   Email Joseph Pandolfi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Usually I do most breakdowns when on Thursday night's. Even without all the goodies that are attached to reel ends I still find my reel splices three ways.

1.) The contrast of light as it hits the top edge of the film is a dead giveaway for reel splices even if there is one or more lab splices removed. I usually pull my screening report to see how many were removed and then count the next splice over as the reel splice.

2.) You can feel the spice on the top edge of the film roll and you can slow down the MUT as you get near one.

3.) Run your MUT at 30% speed or just enough not to labor the motor when the reel gets full and with two fingers of your left hand feel the film between the top roller and the bottom roller of the MUT pole. And your right and at the speed and brake contol. When you feel the splice go through hit the brake and kill the speed. This method works 100% for me and I never miss a splice that way.


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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 11-01-2002 07:53 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi

In the Multiplex I'm working now we are using a white pen to mark the print edge for fast breakdown. Unfortunately, as Kenneth noted, if the print is rewinded when white ink is not dry, the ink will leak on the frame and on platter rollers.....
I understand the need to mark the reel splices, the CNR Cinemeccanica platters are sooooooo slow to stop at maximum speed and you need to know exactly where splice is otherwise you'll have to re-engage the motor, rewind the print, stop, cut the splice, disengage the motor etc. etc. If you have to breakdown 2 or 3 prints in few time, you'll have to find something.

The white pens we're using are water based and it takes a lot of time to dry. Does exists an alchool based pens that dry in few seconds?

I used to see the chaning colours of the reels with my two no-platter projectors. Now it is hard to see the reel change in a semi-dark booth on the platter. I believe that a mark is important, I can also feel the splice but the CNR will stop in a thousand of meters and then to rewind it takes a lot of time.
I HATE labels, and everything that can be seen on the projected image. But I really to find out a reliable and valid way to mark splices.

Bye
Antonio

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-02-2002 01:01 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ew. I guess the lesson is not to use Cinemeccanica platters then! A better method would be to use a "fill line". That is a peice of tape on the inside flange of the reel. Before the film is built when it arrives on reels, the operator places a piece of artists ape on the inside flange, and then marks the point at which that reel it full. On breakdown you see where that line is and can anticipate in advance when to slow down, as the reel is almost to the fill line. Better than damaging the print with marking it.


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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 11-02-2002 01:07 AM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I usually just learn how long it takes for a particular type of platter to slow down and then start slowing down enough time before the splice to stop nearly at (or right at) the splice. Kind of like I do in my car. I start stoping before the stop sign, not at it.


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