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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Amplifiers, Clipping and Damaged Drivers (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Amplifiers, Clipping and Damaged Drivers
Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-25-2002 10:37 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Could somebody please explain...

(a) What exactly is clipping?
(b) What causes it?
(c) Just how does it harm loudspeaker drivers?

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 09-25-2002 10:56 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Clipping is when the input to an amp is greater than the amp can handle. Say an amp amplifies a signal 10 times (ie; say a 1 volt input will become an 10 volt output.) If you put in 1.1 volt, the output can't be any greater than 10. What happens is the output signal begins to look more like a DC signal, which speakers can't handle. The voice coil burns out.

This is one of those things that's a little easier to show on a scope then explain with words.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 09-25-2002 11:08 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When the peaks of a sine wave start to flatten out, that's clipping. That's what it would look like on a scope.

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 09-25-2002 11:23 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
(b) What causes it?

Improper adjustment of gains (pre-amp circuit) can cause the input to the actual amplification circuit to be greater than its limits.


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-26-2002 07:27 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some links:
http://www.rane.com/pdf/note128.pdf
http://users.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/ampovdrv.htm
http://www.epanorama.net/links/audiocircuits.html

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-26-2002 07:33 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Basically it is the peaks of the wave forms being cut off and turned into a flat line
Speakers don't really like having the diaphram held in one position which this does
It is caused by overdriving the amplifier

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Jeff Stricker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 481
From: Calumet, Mi USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 09-26-2002 05:52 PM      Profile for Jeff Stricker   Email Jeff Stricker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Highly clipped audio is also rich in high frequency harmonic energy. This won't do your high frequency drivers any good.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-27-2002 08:29 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the explanations. You've made this very easy to understand. I have one more for you...

(d) What causes "blown" amplifiers?


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Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-27-2002 07:41 PM      Profile for Christopher Seo   Email Christopher Seo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does this mean that speakers should not be driven by square waves, since they are flat-topped by nature? A heavily misaligned Buzz Track comes to mind....

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John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 09-27-2002 10:00 PM      Profile for John Anastasio   Author's Homepage   Email John Anastasio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It means that speakers shouldn't be driven past their rated power, square waves or not. The tone produced by a clarinet is almost a square wave, but a Benny Goodman recording wouldn't blow your speakers unless you turned up the amplifier too far. The point is that a square wave contains the maximum amount of power that a waveform can possible deliver. A square wave with a high duty cycle (it's ON more than it's OFF) will deliver a lot of DC to the speaker voice coils. Clipping is caused simply because the amplifier's power supply reaches the point where it simply can't produce any more power, so it delivers as much as it can. This "flattens" the top of waveforms. If the amp has enough power, it means that you're running it at a level that's almost guaranteed to blow a speaker. Take a 100 watt power amp, send a square wave through it turned all the way up and you're literally shoving enough juice through your speaker to light a 60 watt light bulb....not good for the voice coil.

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John Walsh
Film God

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From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
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 - posted 09-28-2002 01:59 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"What causes "blown" amplifiers?"

Well, "blown" is not really a techinal term it can mean anything from distorted output - to no output. Generally, only three things can happen in an electronic curcuit:

A component "shorts" - an unintended, low resistance (example: a cap shorts, directly connecting the signal on the two sides together);

A component "opens" - a disconnection of a conductor (example: a winding (wire) in a transformer heats up an melts, breaking the circuit);

Or the component changes it's operating parameters (example: the actual PN junction inside a transistor is forced to pass too much current; not enough to short or open it, but enough change the way it works .... as if you tightened the lug nut on a car tire enough to crack/distort the stud but not enough for it to break off.)

The job is to find which of these things happened to your broken piece of equipment.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-28-2002 11:15 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, John.
Thanks, John.

~Manny.

"And you...Deja Vu...I'll always remember you!"
Hillary in Top Secret


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 10-01-2002 02:13 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny, I waited on this one until I was load testing an amplifier. I took some pictures of the oscilloscope screen.

(a) What exactly is clipping? Basically, it is like trying to stuff 10 lbs of manure in a 5-lb bag. You have to clip some manure off to make it fit. The BOTTOM picture of the two shows what a clipped sine wave looks like, and the TOP shows what it a clean sine wave is supposed to look like..

(b) What causes it? Over-driving the amplifier's circuitry, or a malfunction within the circuitry.

(c) Just how does it harm loudspeaker drivers? Inductive loads have AC resistance called "Reactance." Inductive reactance is the product of 2 pi times the frequency times inductance. The clipped portion represents no change in magnetic fields. The inductive reactance then turns into a non-inductive load (resistive) which could cause the voice coils to burn out if the DC component is strong enough or applied long enough.

If you apply a high enough DC to an inductive device, it'll toast it.
In addition to the information others posted, I hope this helps.

Jeff said:

quote:
"Highly clipped audio is also rich in high frequency harmonic energy. This won't do your high frequency drivers any good."

Indeed, it is.

A pure square wave is comprised of the fundamental frequency and an infinate number of odd harmonics. The more odd harmonics, the squarer it will be.

A sawtooth waveform is comprised of the fundamental frequency and an infinate number of even harmonics. The more even harmonics, the more linear rise the sawtooth's ramp will be.

Hey, guys...I am going on what my memory says from about 44 years ago...so please feel free to correct me if I am in error. I cannot recall what a fundamental frequency containing an infinate order of odd and even harmonics look like. Anyone know? A back-to-back sawtooth? I don't remember....


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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 10-02-2002 05:24 PM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is a complicated subject, I hope I will manage to explain what I want to say in English...

The pictures taken by Paul show nicely that a clipped signal has the same amplitude as the unclipped, but since it covers a bigger area, it also contains more energy and is therefore perceived as being louder. In addition to this, the square waveform elements contain odd harmonics and the signal is distorted.
It has to be understood that analogue components do not simply go into hard clipping from a certain point onwards, but that the signal gets more and more distorted as this point is approached. Equipment driven at the very edge of its performing abilities delivers distorted sound which is subjectively heard as louder than the undistorted.
A lot of the endless discussion about playback levels in cinemas is caused by equipment which is too weak and delivers distorted noisy sound which appears to bee too loud even when the SPL meter says the level is OK.
In digital equipment, all clipping is hard clipping, because when the maximum amplitude value is reached (all bits=1), there is no further headroom. Often, digital processors do not get properly aligned because people set the gain factor at the amplifiers to reach the specified sound pressure level with pink noise. If you then equalise by raising more than lowering individual frequency bands, the processor output is doomed to go into hard clipping when you there are signals approaching full scale, because the digital channel sum is above 0dB. To avoid this, you need amplifiers which can give you more gain so that you can lower more frequency bands in the digital equliser. And of course, the amplifier needs enough power reserve to handle full scale signals which are 20dB above reference level without clipping or even approaching clipping.
Most sound systems I know do not meet those requirements and as a consequence deliver noisy sound which is "too loud". If you ever have the opportunity to hear a system with enough power reserves and proper alignment in the digital and analogue areas, you will be very surprised by how "not too loud" movies played back at reference level are.
Another commonly neglected factor is the effectiveness or sensitivity of the loudspeaker, that means how much electrical power you need to reach a given sound pressure level. But that`s another subject...
Michael


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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 10-03-2002 07:03 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Hey, guys...I am going on what my memory says from about 44 years ago...so please feel free to correct me if I am in error.

Paul, you pretty much stated what I've been learning this past year. AFAIK, you are right on the money. Good memory.

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