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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » 16mm projectors (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: 16mm projectors
Don Anderson
Master Film Handler

Posts: 312
From: West Bend, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 09-10-2002 01:31 AM      Profile for Don Anderson   Email Don Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can anybody here recommend a good (if not great) 16mm projector? I'd like to invest in one in the new future. The projector must be of theatre grade, capable of producting a bright, stable image. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Any brands/models to avoid?

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Ron Lacheur
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 650
From: British Columbia, Canada
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-10-2002 01:51 AM      Profile for Ron Lacheur   Email Ron Lacheur   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
avoid the Bell & Howell " auto Load " projectors...they eat film.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-10-2002 02:05 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would avoid ANY Auto-Shred 16mm projector, period!

By the way, what you going to use it for? There are some very nice professional-grade 16mm machines out there, but they can be very expensive, too.

If you plan to use it in a public enviroment such as a theatre, I would recommend a machine that has an intermittant movement rather than the "claw", which is the standard shuttle.


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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 09-10-2002 02:09 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not a fan of Hell & Bowells either, but about the one thing which can be said for them is that the most recent generation have an electronically adjustable speed (18 and 24fps) which can be useful for silents.

My personal favourites are Eiki portables, tbough again, without the auto-load mechanism. Threading and operating is straightforward and routine maintenance (e.g. replacing lamps and belts) is dead easy. The entire film path is readily accessible and therefore can be kept clean very easily. Eikis are also very tolerant of shrunk and brittle stock, and will put up with most dodgy joins.

For full-scale cinema use, I'd say that the big Fumeos (e.g. the HL-3000) have a slight edge over Eikis for picture stability, although I found that they are ruthless to shrunk or brittle film. You could only really trust them with prints in near-perfect condition.

As Paul said, an intermittent-based machine is ideal but they cost very serious money. The Philips/Kinoton FP-18 gives a beautifully steady picture and is very kind to any sort of film stock in virtually any condition. But lacing up is quite fiddly, maintenance jobs which should take 10 minutes have a habit of taking an hour, and the price of spare parts would give George Soros a heart attack.


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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-10-2002 02:27 AM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you're looking for a portable, then Eiki Slotload is the way to go. You can even get xenon if it's worth the cost to you.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-10-2002 06:19 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What's your budget and screen size? There's a big range, from portable B&H classroom models to Kinoton theatre machines.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-10-2002 07:18 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You said you were looking for "theatre grade" projector. I have been using the fabled Eastman 25B (no longer manufactured) in three theatres in size range of 2500 seats to 150 seats. The image produced by this projector, even on the largest screen, is absolutely rock steady. The projector is over-designed with separate intermittant/shutter and drive motors, iso-coupling to prevent mechanical vibrations from reaching the intermittent and thus the image, sound-slit focusing to compensate for emulsion position and film handling that will run the crappyest prints without so much as a hiccup. As many as four sprocket holes can be torn and the film will run without loosing a loop. Plus, it is quiet as a mouse -- you have to look at the machine to see if it is running.

One slight down side is you need to modify the arms (we did it without much trouble) to take 6000ft reels if you want to run full features. The arms as supplied only hold reels for about 80 min of film. The pedestal (the "B" designation) will accept the Strong carbon arc lamphouse that was specially designed for it as well as any standard xenon lamphouse -- we have a Xetron 1600w on it. Another is that the lensing can be a problem because the back element needs to fit into a smaller opening at the gate. The Eastman originals were slow and are hard to come by -- we use Eiki lenses in a special sleeve that we had machined and they work fine -- nice light throughput too. So far we have not used anamorphic attachements with this projector mainly because the need hasn't come up and halving the light on the screen in this format would be more of a compromise than would be acceptable. Lastly, sadly, Eastman no longer keeps parts for this gem, although ICECO in Miami does and has some used units available.

Frank

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-10-2002 07:51 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Eastman Model 25 / Model 30 / Model 40 information:
http://www.film-center.com/e25.html
http://www.film-center.com/e40.html

http://www.film-center.com/projmain1.html

ICECO and other dealers may have some used EASTMAN 16mm projectors in stock, along with spare parts:
http://www.iceco.com/16mm.htm

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 09-10-2002 09:02 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some models did accept 2 hr reels. The takeup goes across the front of the base as seen in one of John's links, albeit with a small reel.

Was that Strong arc lamp a special model? I thought it was just a basic Strong Utility lamp. Was the reflector different for illuminating the 16mm aperture?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-10-2002 10:00 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As I noted in another post, one of our Kodak screening rooms has three EASTMAN Model 30 projectors equipped with the ORC Model 1600 compact xenon lamphouses. We bought the lamps with the optical transfer "snout" condenser lens assembly for 16mm, and remote-operated rotary solonoid dowsers.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 09-10-2002 10:59 AM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Was that Strong arc lamp a special model? I thought it was just a basic Strong Utility lamp.

Steve, I'm fairly certain they were Strong Juniors.

------------------
Better Projection Pays!


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-10-2002 08:08 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Professional machines that I have had little grief from
Hortson
Fumeo
Phillips
Prevost/zies favorite16b

The big elmos always seem to have parts issues

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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 09-11-2002 05:17 PM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon named some pretty damned good projectors in his post above. I have used the Eastman 25 and I love it also.


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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 09-11-2002 07:17 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How far along did that stillborn AMC project for high quality 16mm ever get? Part of the plan was to put the Eastman 25 (30, etc.) back in production.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 09-11-2002 11:29 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Kinoton dual 16/35 is very good, and very easy to work with.

------------------
--Sean McKinnon
Manager
Loews Cineplex Entertainment
Liberty Tree Mall 20
Danvers, Mass
www.enjoytheshow.com

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