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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Paso aereo (sorry, I donīt know the english transltn.) (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Paso aereo (sorry, I donīt know the english transltn.)
Miguel Angel Martorell
Film Handler

Posts: 81
From: Valencia, Spain
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 09-05-2002 09:02 PM      Profile for Miguel Angel Martorell   Email Miguel Angel Martorell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the days of platters and automations a good colleague of mine (and a good friend)with 42 years handlinīfilm have been explaining me what it was an usual practice of the old days called here "paso aereo".
In little words is donīt stop the projection with only one projector (no platter or any similar device) and the reels in which comes divided the film.
My english is too bad for explaining the process but basically you built up and built down a film during the projection only with reels of 400 meters or so.
Anybody knows what is the english form for this practice???

Have you ever used it???

Obviously this is not "film done-right" and useless in a modern booth but just for fun...

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-05-2002 09:20 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've heard of the very poor practice of breaking down a plattered feature by running it onto 2000 foot shipping reels as it comes off the projector. No leaders put back on the print, lots of opportunity for cinches and dirt, and film often cut mid-scene. Film Done WRONG, big time.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Miguel Angel Martorell
Film Handler

Posts: 81
From: Valencia, Spain
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 09-05-2002 09:57 PM      Profile for Miguel Angel Martorell   Email Miguel Angel Martorell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes. Breaking down from platter is a practice very used in a few booths I know (I had to admit I used it 1 time when the manager told me to return a copy in the same thrusday that the one screen theather I worked on closed itīs doors forever. I was not in the mood for staying 30 extra and unpayed minutes so...
Iīll never do this again. Film done %hit


In the other hand when I talk of practice the "paso aereo" for fun, I mean not to do it with any movie I show and as a way of saving time. Is more, archeological interest and always using old traylers that are waiting to be destroyed.

Un saludo

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 09-05-2002 10:26 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
paso aereo = aerial step

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Better Projection Pays!

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Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 09-06-2002 02:26 PM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
paseo aereo=[print breakdown] on the fly

I think you refer to the practice John P. described, called in English breaking down a print "on the fly."
I never attempted it myself, but some mentioned it as a mark of their dexterity, since it meant cutting the film at the splice,removing the full reel from the lower magazine, replacing it with the next empty shipping reel, and fixing the cut end to the reel hub, twirling the reel to take up slack, and locking the reel spindle, all while the film is traveling 90 feet per minute! I believe this risky procedure was reserved for emergencies, since the projectionists I worked with were all adequately compensated for breakdown time by contract. Where two or more projectors were in working condition (three per booth were standard in the 42nd St. theatres) there wouldn't be the need for
"on the fly." But if forced to finish the last show on the only workable machine remaining, this method might have some emergency value.


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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 09-06-2002 02:41 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On the fly is still practiced in some smaller cinemas in India with only one projector as the film is quickly spliced on a table behind the projector which has the reel arm and the film is pass over the projector......in the 10 to 15 second travel time from top reel to bottom reel gives the operator time to break the fresh splice and load a new takeup reel.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-06-2002 02:55 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Richard Fowler said: "On the fly is still practiced in some smaller cinemas in India with only one projector as the film is quickly spliced on a table behind the projector which has the reel arm and the film is pass over the projector......in the 10 to 15 second travel time from top reel to bottom reel gives the operator time to break the fresh splice and load a new takeup reel."

A test of dexterity for the projectionist, but a print full of dirt and scratches for the audience. And I suspect they cut a few frames from the reel every time they show it.


------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 09-06-2002 04:32 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paso aereo=smontaggio al volo

Verrrrry poor tecnique! You save just few minutes and you surely scratch and damage the prints.

Antonio

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Miguel Angel Martorell
Film Handler

Posts: 81
From: Valencia, Spain
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 09-06-2002 09:01 PM      Profile for Miguel Angel Martorell   Email Miguel Angel Martorell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, breakdown a copy on the fly is more a thing of "look what can I do. Iīm a very skill projectionist" but is not film done right but this is not what I mean when I say "paso aereo" although is a part of the procedement.
I think Richard is more closer to what I mean but Iīm not sure ( I need to practice more my english )
Iīll try to explain it.

Only one projector, empty reels and the different reels of the film with his leaders off.

When the reel 1 is about to end you splice on the fly the reel 2 so you dont have to stop īcause the reel 2 is now in projection, put off the empty reel (number 1) and replaced with the full one (number two) in the upper magazine.
Then, you have to breakdow the reel 1 on the fly and replace it with and empty reel on the lower magazine for the reel two.

I saw it today (We used old material, no the prints we are showing ) and looks like a circus number.

Un saludo

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-07-2002 09:17 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From what you are describing, paso aereo sounds like it could be an idiomatic expression that is similar to the English idiom "a high-wire act."

Like a circus performer on a tightrope, the procedure you describe is probably very interesting to watch because it is full of suspense. Similarly, it is so unnatural that few (or none) of us would ever have a practical need to do it. Also, it is so fraught with obvious danger that nobody in their right mind should ever want to actually do it himself.


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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 09-07-2002 09:45 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm a little unclear on how the clown performing this stunt handles the joining on the fly. Take-up I can understand because the film can dump on the floor indefinitely but where does the buffer come from that is to give the brief respite needed to make the joins? Someone mentioned feeding from an arm mounted on an adjacent table but that alone doesn't do it. So I suppose that as the end approaches the clown-ectionist manually pulls a bunch of film off the reel so there is a pile on the floor to feed the machine while cutting the leader and making the splice. Twin arms mounted in line on that table would probably help.

This could be done properly if one had elevators like they have on processing machines, both before and after the projector. An elevator is something like a roller cabinet with film going up and down many times over many rollers except that the lower rollers are on a frame that can move up or down. On the feed side the end while the film is clamped temporariliy to make the join the film still feeds into the machine and the elevator rises as it supplies the film. When the new roll is attached and the clamp released the elevator drops as film feeds into it faster than the machine is taking it. On the takeup side just the opposite: The elevator is empty as film feeds through it to a take up core but when the end of a unit is reached and this must be changed the elevator drops as it fills with film until the new roll is started.

BTW, I am still waiting to see video of a bi-filar loop in action.


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
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 - posted 09-07-2002 09:48 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny: Thanks. Using another idiom, I think you "hit the nail on the head".

Confession: When I worked at the Grandview Drive-In in the late 1960's, at least once per season, Carl and I challenged each other to remove the intermittent and reinstall it (including retiming the shutter) between reels DURING a show! Usually had to be done in less than 15 minutes, including threading the next reel and trimming the carbon lamp. Easily done on the Century Model C projector, but is was a "high wire act" that could have been embarrassing if we were too slow, or made a mistake. (In three seasons, we never missed the next changeover or came back on with travel ghost).

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 09-07-2002 10:05 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have seen the Bi-filar transport in action in the late 1970's at the old Xetron facility in New Jersey. It was scary watching the link arm reversing the feed / takeup reels at middle point of show considering this was acetate film vs the mylar stock now in use.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 09-07-2002 10:49 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Many years ago, two new managers took over where I used to work.

I think they were trying to impress me with how good the staff was at their old theater by explaining how they had spliced the last reel onto to a feature that was running an interlock. Apparently, only the first "three reels" can arrived in time for the show; they put in on the platter and started. The last reels came 30 min later; they put it together on a 6000ft reel and placed the reel on the make-up table. They then pulled off about 100 feet of tail film from the running platter, (letting it drag all over on the floor, I'm sure) spliced it onto the reel and let it run.

The thing I found interesting was: They honestly thought they did the right thing. In fact, they were quite proud of it. To them, the goal was to not stop a show (risking refunds and customer dis-satifaction.) They could not understand why I was not impressed, and thought I was not a "team-player" etc.


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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-07-2002 12:03 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the days before polyester film, a friend who worked at a large city theatre told me that if the film broke upon exiting the bottom of the machine their instructions were to let it run onto the floor, rather than stop the show.

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