Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » DTS subwoofer level (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: DTS subwoofer level
Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 09-03-2002 09:23 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
s'ok, found the information i needed, thanks. EDIT: See below for levels.


 |  IP: Logged

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-04-2002 10:14 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have nothing to say.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-04-2002 10:38 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I have something to say.

How about next time an answer is found after posting a topic, you go ahead and post the answer so the next guy who is looking this up in the archives won't click on it and say to himself "what a waste of time."

 |  IP: Logged

Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 09-04-2002 11:13 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You are quite correct, Brad, please accept my apologies. I did attempt to delete this post,(via the delete button) but was informed that only the almighty administrator has this option. This was made all the more embarassing, of course, by the fact that the original post quoted below, was mine.

I needed the D.T.S. level and switch information, but due to restricted computer access (cable problems) decided to try for a quick answer. As the cable connection became stable again, i looked up my original post from 3 years ago, under the topic "Digital Poll "which follows:

From 04 Sept. 99


Joe, I wonder if you are using different tracks for setting the auditoriun S.P.L. than I am, and why the lower volume in centre channel.
I have been using;
37 - Left channel 85 dB(c)
38 - Left surround 82 dB(c)
39 - Centre channel 85 dB(c)
40 - Right surround 82 dB(c)
41 - Right channel 85 dB(c)
42 - Subwoofer 91 dB(c)
I turning off the subwoofer amp when setting
the surrounds, and vice-versa.
From memory, the delay is set by counting the frames from the reader pick-off to the aperture and multiplying by 1.25 (the D.T.S. time-code being based on 30 frames/sec).
If anyone is considering making their digital systems truly portable, may I suggest looking into the Kelmar "docker" system. Properly set up, changing heads is a snap, and time delays are the same for all booths. (If different projectors are used, the delay is set for the longest projector, and spacers are used to compensate).
IP: Logged



 |  IP: Logged

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-04-2002 11:23 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the preferred method for adjusting DTS levels has changed since 1999.

Using a current DTS setup disk you should playback the 1kHz tone and adjust all output potentiometers so that you can measure 300mV (AC) from each of the 6 channels.

~Manny (preferred by 4 out of 5 doctors).

 |  IP: Logged

Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 09-04-2002 11:30 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny, is that 300mV as loaded by the Dolby (CP-500) or open-ended?

 |  IP: Logged

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-04-2002 11:41 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I used the breakout board supplied with my DTS technician's kit. As such, my DTS units were not connected to the processors when I set the levels. The breakout board is for convenience; it's just something for you to hold your probes to.

I don't know if it would make a difference if you were connected (I'll let someone else answer that) but that's probably not how they intend for you to make these settings.

BTW, I learned this information right here at Film-Tech.com earlier this year.


 |  IP: Logged

Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 09-05-2002 12:28 AM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny, what has been your experience (using the 300mV level) with comparitive volume levels between, say, trailers that are D.T.S. encoded, as compared to those that aren't, or "digital drop-outs" during a feature?

 |  IP: Logged

Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 09-05-2002 12:56 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All of our units are set at 250mV not 300mV.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-05-2002 03:30 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Using the DS3 disc and setting output levels to 300 mV AC is indeed how DTS is recommending levels be set these days, but do bear in mind that is only for certain processors. Consult the paperwork that comes with the DS3 disc to be certain that is correct for your situation.

Also, the subwoofer level really can't be set properly without an RTA as compared against the stage speaker's low frequencies. The sub should have a 10db in band gain over the stage channels.

You will also find setting each surround to 82 1/2db @ C weighting is more accurate of a setting to achieve a sum of 85db. Of course this requires an analog SPL meter, but here again this just goes to show how superior analog can be to digital.


 |  IP: Logged

David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 09-05-2002 10:38 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Official Cinemark addendum to calibration procedures: "All Cinemark subwoofers shall be calibrated to no more than 1/2 the normal recommended output level."

(Apologies to Darryl)


 |  IP: Logged

Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 09-05-2002 12:03 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

David, are you kidding????? Is it true??? Why should Cinemark have this policy in advance for all their theaters??

Rick

I found the 300mV procedure very accurate. The level between Dolby Digital and DTS is the same if you set the DTS levels at 300mV.

I'm confused about the SPL levels. Let's ignore the Subwoofer level (that requires an RTA). Our tech set the microphone, EQ all the channels, and then set the levels. He set in the same day both DD and DTS levels, without moving the microphones and using the same RTA (R2 THX).
Then I checked the levels with my tester: 380mV the stage channels, 300mV the rear channels. How is it possibile? I personally saw the SPL readings on the R2 (85-82 dB).

More: just for fun I tried my own RTA (a cheap measurement microphone with Spectra LAB). The curve was not accurate, perhaps becasue I have just one microphone. But when I checked the levels I saw that, at 300mV, DTS pink noise is lower than DD one on RTA (5/6 dB), and the SPL reading was lower.

Any explanations?

Bye
Antonio

 |  IP: Logged

Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 09-05-2002 12:17 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>Official Cinemark addendum to calibration procedures: "All Cinemark subwoofers shall be calibrated to no more than 1/2 the normal recommended output level."<<

That above sounds to me like the individual engineers suggestion not Cinemark as a whole since I have not seen or herd about any such settings.

All subs are to be set to measure at least 79 db. In some cases lower do to bleedover in older theaters. All measurments and calibrations are to be done on the Ultra stereo processors not using the dts ajustments. They are to be set at 250mV on all channels

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-05-2002 02:32 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
F.Y.I. 79db for a sub is waaaaaaaaaaay too low. At that level, there is absolutely no reason to even turn them on. Even just setting the subwoofer to produce 85db in the theater isn't enough to make a hill of beans worth of difference. Techs who set the sub lower should be lined up and shot.


 |  IP: Logged

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 09-05-2002 03:32 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
12 dB down? As a 6dB difference represents a doubling or halving of SPL isn't that something like 1/4 the proper level?

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.