Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Strong CNA-150 automation (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
Author Topic: Strong CNA-150 automation
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-28-2002 02:12 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Anyone running this automation? Supposedly there is a way to set this up for a "start cue". To explain, this way a cue is placed at the tail end of the leader and when the START button is pressed, the projector motor will run until the cue is reached, and then initiate the start sequence (7 second countdown/douser open/sound change/light change).

My theory was to set each automation into "interlock mode", but assign each screen a different sync number. That way the automation would *think* it is performing an interlock on every screen, but of course there would be no second projector running with it. I tried this on one machine, but got an error from the automation as it shut down right after the automation read the cue and opened the douser.

So has anyone here done this with a CNA-150 automation? I know there is a restriction of having 9 interlocks going on simultaneously, but in a 9 or less plex this should work fine.

 |  IP: Logged

Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 08-28-2002 02:28 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Probably the show logice needs to have more than one machine in a each sync loop, and as it doesn't assumes it's lost it's partner.

Never actually tried to get the CNA's to work this way, I've always just stuck with the show logic, and drummed it into the operators. However, I wander if a 'wait cue x ' command, right at the start would do it?

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-28-2002 02:49 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
"However, I wander if a 'wait cue x ' command, right at the start would do it?"

This is the first time I have had the chance to play with the CNA series of automations. Can the CNA-150 do this? I assume that works similar to a CA21's "delay" line?


 |  IP: Logged

Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 08-28-2002 03:03 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have programmed and used the CNA-150 before, as well as read the manual. I could be mistaken, but I don't think there is a way to do what you are talking about. About the only thing you can do is program the delay time (it doesn't have to be 7 seconds, it can be as long as you want within a certain range). But once you press the Start button, it starts the countdown.


 |  IP: Logged

Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 08-28-2002 05:09 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, never seen a CA21, so I can't help there.

I went straight from Cinemation to CNA!

I've never done a CNA150, we only use the CNA200, but I doubt they are radically different. Unless I'm misunderstanding the 'wait cue' command, then you should be able to achieve this.

Ken, if you REALLY program the CNA series, by over-riding what if I remember right is called show logic, you can make them do anything they are wired to do, it just gets more complex from a programming and cueing point of view.

 |  IP: Logged

Jean-Michel Grin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 222
From: Geneva & Lausanne, Switzerland
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 08-28-2002 07:43 PM      Profile for Jean-Michel Grin   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Michel Grin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,

In My booth we use the CPA-10, the ancester of the CNA series. In "normal" mode, one print for each projector, a cue is placed at the tail end of the leader to open the douser. In interlock mode a second cue foil placed prior the cue at the tail end of the leader is necessary to initial show logic. And is important to set each automation for each interloking loop with the same sync. number and each projectors with different ID number. I've experienced the same problem with two CPA-10 they stop without reasons durring the show. the only cure was to exchange the entire automation in one console.

Sorry my English is really Bad, but I hope that you're understand me..

Sincerly,

------------------
Jean-Michel Grin - Europlex Cinemas (Switzerland)

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-28-2002 08:49 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken, I know the CNA-150 can have it's start sequence timer set to any number I desire, but that is still not a "start cue". Doing that will still require that the operator thread to a certain frame on the leader. What ends up happening is the projector is threaded, then the projectionist kicks the motor switch on a couple of times as he gets the leader ran down to the point it needs to be...whether it is 7 seconds or 70 seconds. That is unnecessary murder on the motor and gears of the projector. Plus I still see people who roll it down too far and end up missing the start of the first of the film.

Why in the world people design automations without a start cue is just insane! This is the one feature that almost everyone I bump into or work with wants (or appreciates if they already have automations that have it).

Now I would welcome a "default countdown". The idea being that the projector motor will run until it hits the start cue, then 7 seconds from that point (which should be user adjustable) the douser will open and the show begins. However if after X number of seconds after the START button is pressed it does not see a start cue, it will automatically proceed with the show start sequence. Such a feature would be nice on the higher end automations out there, as that way if a cue missed on a timer start, the show would still run...just 30 or 60 seconds late (again, whatever the user set the default timer to). Of course, the xenon should never strike either until the start cue is read. No need to blast the xenon on the changeover while the leader runs down.


 |  IP: Logged

Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 08-28-2002 08:57 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Ken, I know the CNA-150 can have it's start sequence timer set to any number I desire, but that is still not a "start cue". Doing that will still require that the operator thread to a certain frame on the leader....

I understand what you are referring to. I was simply saying that you can change the delay if you want to.

quote:
Of course, the xenon should never strike either until the start cue is read. No need to blast the xenon on the changeover while the leader runs down.

I dissagree. Some times it may take a while for the lamp to strike and the arc to become stable. I don't know about you, but I want to make sure that the bulb is lit and producing steady light well before the dowswer opens.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-28-2002 10:25 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken, with a good lamphouse and a good xenon lamp that is not overran on hours, 7 seconds is plenty. Therein lies the disclaimer though...it must be GOOD equipment and no "el cheapo" bulbs.

 |  IP: Logged

Alan Gilbertson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Carpentersville Il 60110
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 08-29-2002 08:14 PM      Profile for Alan Gilbertson   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gilbertson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Brad,

We do this all the time with the CNA-200's because of the endless loop. I believe the 150's ar the same. THe cue on the leader call waiting for cue zereo, and as for the SYNC mode. Call that sync loop zereo and that doesn't even need to be up on the main screen. If this does'nt work let me know and I'll check it this week. Once we have it programed we never change it so I'm going off of memory.

Alan

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-29-2002 08:24 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The CNA-200 is a completely different beast from the CNA-200 as far as I can tell. Plus, there is no "main screen" like the CNA-200 has.


 |  IP: Logged

Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-30-2002 10:30 AM      Profile for Pat Moore   Email Pat Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad -- you should be able to place a "Cue 0" as the first step of the program. Whether it's interlocked to other systems or not, the system runs motor and lamphouse but will wait for that cue before beginning it's show-open sequence.

Pat


 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-30-2002 02:19 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess I'm missing something here, but the douser is set to open 7 seconds after the START button is pressed. Exactly how would putting a "cue 0" 30 seconds into the leader prevent the douser from opening 7 seconds after starting the automation and wait for a cue instead?

Reminder: this is the CNA-150.


 |  IP: Logged

Alan Gilbertson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Carpentersville Il 60110
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 08-30-2002 08:48 PM      Profile for Alan Gilbertson   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gilbertson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Brad,

Waiting for cue zereo starts the sequence after that cue is read or at the time the cue is read. So you are running it just like interlock but you are only running the 1 projector. We use this at all of our location using both CNA's and Eprads Ultimations. It is very helpful with the endless loops as you don't know where they will stop.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-30-2002 08:51 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Can someone please explain HOW to add a "cue zero"? I'm getting a lot of tips here, but no directions on how to set it up. As far as I am aware, "cue zero" WILL happen 7 seconds after the START button is pressed (unless a longer delay has been set)...but that is still NOT a start cue. A start cue should be able to have the projector threaded at any point of the leader and the douser still open on that exact designated frame.


 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.