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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Need to run mag. (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Need to run mag.
Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 07-28-2002 03:36 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Had a 'phone call today, as a result of which I am looking into the possibility fitting up a private cinema to run 4 track magnetic, with the 12kHz control tone. I have just over a year to sort this out, (makes a nice change from being given five minutes notice for something).

Apart from the penthouses and heads, have one set, know where I can find another, small tooth sprockets (only one needs changing), 2.55 aperture plates and giving everything a good going over with a demagnetiser, what else will be needed? On this site there is a manual for a Dolby MPU-1 pre-amp unit, but this only mentions using it with the CP-100 and 200. Would it be possible to use one of these with the CP-65 which she has? If so, what cards would it need in it (for two projectors, 35mm only), do they ever turn up secondhand, and what would one be likely to cost ?

This is to go into a box which is a real showpiece, makeshift looking solutions would not be popular with the owner!

It is not posible to move the optical axis, we would just have to project a slightly off-centre image, and adjust the screen masking to match, but she does this anyway, for silent films.

Thanks for any advice, I've run mag a few times, but never had to set it up.


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Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 07-28-2002 05:53 PM      Profile for Ben Wales   Email Ben Wales   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If they can budget for new kit, I would go for a Panastereo System, I sure it can handle a 35mm (mag) input as well as 70mm, the NFT 1 has one and reports they are well pleased with it.

Quite why they want to install 4 track mag when there are no mag prints available, and most modern type projectors will not have the (Fox Hole Sprockets) if they are, they are mostly in private collections or at the NFA.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 07-28-2002 06:33 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"If they can budget for new kit, I would go for a Panastereo System, I sure it can handle a 35mm (mag) input as well as 70mm, the NFT 1 has one and reports they are well pleased with it."

Budget is tight, this is the private home cinema of someone I was at school with, many years ago. She bought the CP-65, and the speakers, much of the other equipment was donated, or rescued from places which were throwing it out. Two 1950s Westars with AEI xenons, 500 Watts, I think. Screen is about three metres. I have projected there from time to time for her and her husband. It's several hundred miles from where I live, so I don't get to see them very often. Equipment has been restored to the condition it was in when it left the factory. I wish I had something like this, (and somewhere to put it). I installed some of the equipment, including the original sound system, about five years ago, but not the CP-65, which went in quite recently.

"Quite why they want to install 4 track mag when there are no mag prints available, and most modern type projectors will not have the (Fox Hole Sprockets) if they are, they are mostly in private collections or at the NFA."

She is a keen film fan, and collector, has several friends who are the same, and wants to be able to run original magnetic prints. At the moment she has my 'Perspecta' card on loan for something she ran recently, and has talked about setting up for 3D.

Maybe I shouldn't have said that only 35mm is needed; It wouldn't surprise me if I heard hat she had picked up a pair of DP-70s from somewhere, and had them installed!

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-28-2002 08:07 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Dolby MPU will work fine with the cp65 jut put the two headers on the cp65 backplane to format 22
There is even a switch card for the mpu to do the 12K tone
If budget is the issue
Smart make a good Mag preamp (the current version doesn't have the 12K control)

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-28-2002 10:01 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gord,

The SMART SMP-435 is out of production.

If you can find an old SMART SMP-430 it has the filter for the control tone. One nice thing is it will handle two projector 4-track and is only 1-U tall. If memory serves, there are two tunable filters to allow you to dial out the 12KHz tone based on how your projectors run.

For Dolby, you would need an MPU-1 35/2. It also needs a 24VDC power supply. It would also need the optional Cat. 93 12KHz switch card. Dolby's MPU is also now discontinued.

Panastereo offers a 1-U MPU (the number escapes me at the moment) in addition to their world famous CSP-4600.

The CSP-4600 will add true mag capability to the CP-65. It has the 35mm 4-track stuff built in. For a 2-projector system, you would need an additional mag preamp card (it comes with one 6-channel card)...it would then feed to the CP-65.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-28-2002 11:02 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The SMART SMP-435 is out of production
Last time I checked there were still boards and parts on the shelf that could be made up


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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-29-2002 07:51 AM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ben wrote:

quote:
"Quite why they want to install 4 track mag when there are no mag prints available, and most modern type projectors will not have the (Fox Hole Sprockets) if they are, they are mostly in private collections or at the NFA."

I thought that all sprockets were still made to fit Foxhole. As during the last five years I had replacement intermittent assemblies, and replaced all the sprockets on the Westar (Century) projectors, and RCA 9031 soundheads. All renewals were definitely Foxhole type, I could still run a 2.55:1 grid 4 track magnetic test film.

Are standard hole sprockets fitted to the latest Kineton projectors, or is there still an option ?

Ben,

Interesting that a Panastereo System is installed at the NFT 1. These processors have been highly spoken of in another thread, I seem to remember. Are there any other installations in the UK, and who is the supplier ?? Thanks.



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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-29-2002 09:13 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe Omnex is the dealer in the UK

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Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-30-2002 05:32 AM      Profile for Christopher Seo   Email Christopher Seo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This information on the LaVezzi website makes it unclear whether they consider it safe for their sprockets to run CS perfs anymore:
http://www.lavezzi.com/LavFAQ-VKFII.html

"The original VKF sprocket was designed over 30 years ago with the intent of reducing film damage, projector maintenance and cleaning. It was designed to handle both standard 35mm and cinemascope prints. Since the only 35mm format in use today is per ANSI 139-1996 (ks ), LaVezzi has redesigned the VKF sprocket accordingly. This design, known as ‘VKFII’, has wider teeth which are centered on the perforations."


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Dick Prather
Master Film Handler

Posts: 259
From: Portland, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-30-2002 04:29 PM      Profile for Dick Prather   Email Dick Prather   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would not use VKF sprockets unless you know the mag film has not had any shrinkage. I have mag and some films I have will not line up properly on VKF sprockets. Others prints will. I am in the process of replacing my sprockets with new C/S ones. We ran all types of sprocket holes on C/S sprockets for years in the theatres with no problems. I would rather use the VKF's but not at the risk of damaging the film. There should be some old Dolby CP-100's around with MPU-1 with them for a reasional price in your neck of the woods. They work very nice in a home. Best of luck in your project.
Dick

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 07-30-2002 09:49 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Note that while the Dolby MPU is usually connected to a CP-100 or 200 via individual projector outputs these outputs can be tied together and the changeover done right in the MPU. That's how you use it with a CP that has only a single set of mag inputs.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 08-09-2002 01:33 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the advice, I now have most of what we need, and will be going up to install some of it tomorrow, I will have to make another trip in a few weeks, I can't carry everything in one go, and don't have much time, I have to come back tomorrow night. I will try to get one projector set up tomorrow.

Couldn't find any 4 track pink noise anywhere, tried all over the place. Finally found some, somebody who used to be a projectionist had some; he works in the same college as me! (Different department.)


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-09-2002 03:26 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
If anyone has a strip of 4 track mag pink noise here in the states, please contact me. I am in need.

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 08-09-2002 06:11 PM      Profile for Per Hauberg   Author's Homepage   Email Per Hauberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm running MPU-1 with CP65 - doing fine. -But MPU is no longer available from Dolby...

Per

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-09-2002 09:31 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The CSP-4600 (Panastereo) would do well with your CP-65 as well...even give it REAL 70mm capability too.

Brad, you'll never get my 35mm mag stash! Though I have striped PN, some use full coat pink noise (more available) and take into account the fringing compensation (due to the full coat having a wider track than the striped media). It will show up as an exaggerated bass. Also, track 4, surround will have the perforations mucking with you.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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