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Author Topic: Digital sound trailers
Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 07-20-2002 02:48 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Although the words "The feature you are about to see is presented in [insert sound fromat here] sound," never actually appear on sound logo trailers, is that not exactly the purpose of such trailers? I brought this up to some other projectionists when I noticed that the Dolby Train is playing on My Beek Fat Greek Wedding, an SR only print. They say that it's advertising that the theater is equiped with Dolby Digital but says nothing about the specific feature. 99.9 percent of the customers are going to assume that either they are listening to Dolby Digital, or they are supposed to be listening to Dolby Digital but it's not working. Is this not false advertising?

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-20-2002 02:54 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Yes."

It's false, misleading, and Film Done Wrong.
Unfortunately, if this is not already obvious to them, it's probably non-trivial to convince them.

--jhawk

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 07-20-2002 03:05 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I remember when DTS first came out, some of the first few universal titles came with the DTS logo attached to the print. I went to one of our local competitors to see a movies and it still had the logo attached to it. The film was playing in a mono auditorium.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-20-2002 03:08 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken,

Are you surprised that this hype-driven industry isn't exactly wringing its collective hands or loosing sleep because of guilt over a bit of ambiguous over-statement or even outright deception, are you?

Truth-in-advertising should require theatres to post, along with the rating, what format the film is presented in IN THAT THEATRE, not what it was filmed in. A customer paying $10 to see a current feature should know that they will be watching a scope picture cropped to 2:1 BEFORE they plunk down their hard-earned bucks. Likewise it should be clearly stated that they will be hearing SR and not digital. They should know that the theatre is running only MONO sound, not stereo. They should be informed BEFORE they go into the theatre that the screen will be no bigger than their home projecton tv set and set ten feet above head height so they will need a neckbrace immediately after the show. That would be truth in advertising because theatres presenting the "lesser" values surely are not charging cheaper ticket prices. Will theatres ever voluntarily give consumers this kind of honest, up front information? Can you hear me down there in Florida, laughing out loud at the question?

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-20-2002 03:11 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Universal Pictures had the policy of just attaching the original DTS trailer to the print itself. The first DTS trailer simply featured the flying disc and when it exploded the trailer was over. In 1994, about the time when "Speed" was released, DTS came up with a longer trailer featuring the DTS logo and the "This Theater Features" title.

One thing I did like about the original trailer was how the wind sounded when the disc exploded. It was the perfect transitional intro into the start of "Jurassic Park." I really wish Universal Home Video had used this trailer when they released the "Jurassic Park" DVD. But, no, they had to inappropriately use the piano trailer instead. Geez.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-20-2002 03:22 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Truth in advertising" just seems like an extra bit of labor most theater operators don't want to bother themselves with. Most theaters don't place digital format trailers on the print since the snipes have to be changed as the print moves from auditorium to auditorium. A complex featuring the same digital format on all screens has an easier time with it. But even then most AMC sites don't run SDDS trailers at all either.

I too, would like to know exactly what kind of sound format and projection format is being used on a film before I walk into the auditorium. But that just doesn't seem to be happening. If anything, movie ads are providing even less information than ever. Cost cutbacks are part of the problem. It costs extra money to make a theater directory ad or stack ad that includes all the technical info in readable sized type.

Another problem is a number of newer stadium seated theaters actually feature watered down arsenals of equipment. Most do not qualify for THX standards. Cheaper speakers, amps, cinema processors and projection equipment is installed. One would think every screen in a new multiplex would have digital sound. But they often don't. I can point to a few here in Oklahoma like that. So, to cover up the facts, they just don't notate the technical info for their shows. They let the audiences assume that since it is a newer theater it must automatically have all that stuff.

In the end, it comes down to the audiences to do a better job in shopping around for a better theater. If someone goes to a dump, complains about the show, but then keeps paying money to see movies in that same dump then he has absolutely no right to complain. Dollars do the talking.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-20-2002 04:47 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I always felt that there either should be no optical backup track on format logo snipes or a analogue track saying since you are hearing this this theatre is too cheap to provide(brand XXX ) digital sound or maintain it

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-20-2002 05:21 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree completely with Gordon on this.

Actually, it never occurred to me to run a sound trailer for any format other than the one in which the feature is being presented. Hmm....

One of the places where I fill in sometimes doesn't usually run sound format logos; this is because it is a 5-plex with all three digital systems: the big house has DTS, as does the two smallest houses. The two mid-size houses have SRD and SDDS, respectively. Thus, during the "life" of a print, the sound logo would need to be changed nearly every time it moved. Add to that the fact that prints often move for screenings, interlocks, etc., and it just becomes a big mess. The big house is THX certified and I do try to run the THX trailer when possible.

Another place where I fill in has SRD on three of six screens, but doesn't have any Dolby trailers. I've written to Dolby to ask them to send some out, but haven't heard back from them.

If I worked in a single or a multiplex where all houses were equipped with the same format, I'd definitely run the sound trailers.

Another issue with having multiple digital formats in one theatre is (as mentioned in another thread) the possibility that one track (usually SDDS) won't play right when the others are fine, and this isn't usually discovered until prints are moved. My most recent example is MIB2: the print ran fine in DTS for the first two weeks, then was moved to an SDDS house where there were major dropout problems on some reels. The solution was to run it in SR, since the film is not doing great business and it doesn't really make sense to replace reels on a print that probably won't play in an SDDS house for more than a week, anyway.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-21-2002 01:46 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I also agree with Gordon. Brad and I have discussed this a few times I think as well. I am more in favor(favour) of the analog(analogue) track having a voice saying that you are not listening to digital... go complain and demand a refund, please.

But as far as what Ken is talking about where the auditorium has Dolby Digital and the print does not, I don't think that the logo should be played at all. Why even put forth the effort to attach it to the print when it was assembled? Ken, you need to smack your projectionists around!


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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-21-2002 06:59 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The appropriate sound trailer to play with "Greek Wedding" (which is SR-only) would be Dolby "Temple," which is the SR trailer. This assumes that the theatre is equipped for SR, of course.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-21-2002 04:43 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've never seen a theater anywhere play the SR "Temple" trailer (which simply features the plain Dolby logo).

The only place I've ever seen "Temple" was on some European web site that had a bunch of format trailer to download. They had .VOB files with DD 5.1 for all the Dolby and THX logos, but the "Temple" trailer was just a basic MPEG with a tiny picture.

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Peter Dougherty
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Maspeth, NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-22-2002 01:48 AM      Profile for Peter Dougherty   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Dougherty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have an even bigger complaint with exhibition here in New York City. Try finding out what's playing in any THX auditorium! None of the newspaper ads or MoviePhone recordings indicate what's in the THX houses.

We only have a few THX auditoria in the City, and all are one or two theatres within multiplexes. An average film-goer will never be able to find out the right showtime for the THX performance, and most times the box-office staff don't know their rumps from holes in the ground if they're actually lucky enough to get through to a "human being."

I've never understood this. Why would a theatre pay the humongous THX certification fees, have the alignments done, earn the right to advertise in a format that is a guaranteed cinemaphile magnet, yet fail to advertise it, fail to put THX trailers on screen or even push it at the box office.

And forget about finding out which digital format the film's presented in! Nobody knows, nobody cares...

------------------
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty

W2IRT

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Adam Wilbert
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 590
From: Bellingham, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2002


 - posted 07-22-2002 03:12 AM      Profile for Adam Wilbert   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Wilbert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
another plug for Harkin's from me.

We had 11 screens: 3 SDDS, 3DD, 3DTS, 2SR. 1 of the SDDS and 1 DD were THX auditoriums. EVERY WEEK, we swapped out sound designation trailers with out fail. Yeah, it was a pain for the projectionists, but who here cares? Its all about the presentation, so suck it up. We also changed the sound designation if the show was being moved for a day to accomodate a "sneak screening" in the larger house. The box office reader boards had "digital sound" and "THX" snipes that went on the appropriate film (mylars, the only way to go. I hate those red LED signs!) All of the staff (even the ushers and concession people) had dailies available should a customer want to know exactly what digital format was being used. The box office staff also had a company memo that was updated every week, and could tell any customer the sound format for the whatever show of whatever movie on the 8th screen of the location 2 hours away, and whether it was THX certified or not.

The VP routinly said that the majority of our work was for the 5% of the customers that this stuff matters too. They're the ones who would take their dollars to another location if they weren't amazed. The rest of our customers just came because we were closest.
-adam

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 07-22-2002 04:36 AM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Bobby Henderson wrote:
I've never seen a theater anywhere play the SR "Temple" trailer (which simply features the plain Dolby logo).
The only place I've ever seen "Temple" was on some European web site that had a bunch of format trailer to download. They had .VOB files with DD 5.1 for all the Dolby and THX logos, but the "Temple" trailer was just a basic MPEG with a tiny picture.

We play 'Temple' (Single University screen, dolby A)
I have a flat and a scope copy.

I wish they made another one. It can get a bit tiring.

And I have seen it played in a multiplex - SRD film in an SRD house

(there is a copy here in the 'video' section if you want to take a look)

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-22-2002 02:50 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Peter said: >Why would a theatre pay the humongous THX certification fees, have the alignments done, earn the right to advertise in a format that is a guaranteed cinemaphile magnet, yet fail to advertise it, fail to put THX trailers on screen or even push it at the box office. <

Excellent question, Peter....why indeed. It goes to the very heart of what the exhibtion business has become all about: selling FOOD (or a close facsimile thereof), not motion picture presentation.

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