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Author Topic: Lamp AC
Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-19-2002 04:40 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi everyone

Since we are experiencing problems with many xenon bulbs, our tech connected an oscilloscope on the rectifier output to monitor the current quality.
Result: we have about 1V AC on the output. Our older lamp has three point (perhaps it is not the right term, hope that it is clear!) that show an AC in the current.

So, is is 1V within the specs?

Bye
Antonio

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Jean-Michel Grin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 222
From: Geneva & Lausanne, Switzerland
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 07-19-2002 05:13 AM      Profile for Jean-Michel Grin   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Michel Grin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Antonio,

What kind of rectifier are you using in your cinema ?
Conventional like a IREM or an Electronic model ?
What is the wattage of your lamp ?
I've been experienced the same problem with a 7000 watts Osram Lamp and a IREM Variable Plunger (I'm not sure of the therm) rectifier. We wanted to replace the condensators at the output of the unit but, finaly we have exchanged this conventional IREM rectifier (is was too noisly) for a electronic ADDE BBR-180 rectifier and we got less trouble.

Sorry I can't tell you nothing more...

Good Luck !


Jean-Michel Grin - Europlex Cinemas (Switzerland)

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John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 07-19-2002 05:59 AM      Profile for John Anastasio   Author's Homepage   Email John Anastasio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's not so much the voltage of the ripple as it is the % of the operating voltage of the lamp. If the lamp is running at 20 volts and you have 1 v of ripple, you've got 1/20, or 5% ripple. If you run at 40v, then the ripple voltage is 2.5% At what voltage does that lamphouse run? It seems that 1v p/p at normal lamphouse operating parameters is rather high, but maybe one of our experts can jump in here....

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-19-2002 06:13 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Usually, it's the amount of CURRENT ripple that is measured. Excessive current ripple causes flicker in the light output, and quickly erodes/damages the lamp electrodes. In countries with 60Hz electrical power, the 60Hz ripple "beats" with the 48 cycle (2-blade shutter) or 72 cycle (3-blade shutter) frequency to produce a very noticeable and annoying 12Hz. flicker.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-19-2002 08:23 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
IREM is rather noted for having one of the highest ripple in the industry. They offer a filter unit (read: admission of guilt) to improve it. If you have IREMs and you don't have the AFU, then get it...be prepaired, it costs a bit.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-19-2002 11:31 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have a 3000W Osram lamp, G3 Irem rectifier. I do not have specs right here and I don't know what is the nominal voltage.

Antonio

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-19-2002 12:36 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some links to information about excessive current ripple:
http://www.xenonbulbs.com/pdf_manuals/xenon_bulb_info/xenon_bulb_failure_analysis.pdf
http://www.ltilamps.com/techinfo/arc_instab.html

The Osram publication "XBO Theatre Lamps" says:

"A better method is to estimate the ripple by means of the light. Using a fast enough photocell and an oscilloscope, it is possible to ascertain whether the ripple is in the correct order of magnitude by MEASURING THE LIGHT, without using a great deal of equipment. With a ripple of between 5 and 10% the light ripple is about 50% higher, as the luminous flux is proportional to the lamp current to the power of 1.5."

In other words, let a bit of the direct light from the lamphouse (no shutter moving) shine on a properly loaded silicon photocell connected to an oscilloscope. Look at the "steady state" light output and the amount of light ripple using the scope.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-19-2002 01:35 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

Great trick the to found the lamp instability. Thanks!

Bye
Antonio

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John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 07-19-2002 05:21 PM      Profile for John Anastasio   Author's Homepage   Email John Anastasio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've actually done that little trick using a mirror to reflect a bit of the lamphouse "spill" onto the solar cell and just looking at the results on a scope connected to the audio chain. You could not only see the flicker, you could hear it.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-19-2002 05:32 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This "trick" is also good for looking at shutter efficientcy.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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