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Topic: SR in Mono

Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1605
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 07-14-2002 05:53 PM

I heard a very bad presentation today, and I'm trying to figure out what they did. The picture was the Dye-Transfer print of FUNNY GIRL, which I believe is DTS/DD/SDDS-8(?) and SR.

What I heard was very compressed, slightly distorted and definitely mono, with a sharp roll-off cutting off most of the high frequencies. Is this what SR would sound like on a mono system?

Boston Light and Sound did some work on this theatre (Ohio Theatre, a 4,000 seat restored movie palace) in 1996 and, according to their web site, put in a CP-200. Sure didn't sound like any processing was going on at all.

To make things even worse, one of the machines had a terrible flutter that could be easily heard in the instrumental sections.

The terrible sound really spoiled this for me. The dye-transfer print was beautiful, BUT, it sure looked like Ms. Streisand was photographed through some slight filter, because when she was on-screen the picture was slightly clouded, but it cleared up completely when she wasn't there.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 07-14-2002 06:03 PM

Isn't that kind of what happens when an SR track is played back in A? Compressed, no high frequencies, very little directionality. I know Dolby claims SR prints will sound "acceptable" when played in A, but their definition of "acceptable" seems kind of loose by today's standards.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 07-14-2002 07:27 PM

At my theater, we play all our trailers in A so that we don't get volume complaints. They sound ok. Acceptable for trailers, but not for the feature. (We play the feature in SRD.)

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-14-2002 07:46 PM

Could it be that they had some catestrophic system failure and were playing in by-pass mode. I am not familiar with the CP200, but their emergency mode may give only a mix in the center channel and no stereo at all. Did you hear surround? By-pass wouldn't give any surround.

I've heard SR played in A and it gives passable stereo -- decoding surround works about the same.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-14-2002 08:01 PM

Is it possible they were running an original mono dye transfer print of that movie and not a recently struck one? Are you sure the sound was actually "compressed" and that it wouldn't have been better described as "pumping"? The reason I ask is because any original prints of that would have been mono if I recall correctly. In this instance, it sounds to me like they were playing a mono print in SR. Everything else you said certainly implies that was the case.

Where did you get your information that the movie was in digital? I am betting if you got it from someone who worked there that they simply read the cans, which are damn near ALWAYS wrong on older prints. I ran a print of Wings which is a silent film recently, yet the cans were labeled SRD/DTS/SDDS. Pretty impressive, eh?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 07-14-2002 09:23 PM

Brad-

I bet that film DID have digital on it, but in all 3 formats (Dolby Digital, DTS, and SDDS 8) it was all zeros. That works WAY better than just turning off the sound readers!

Also, just for general knowledge, SR is compatible with A but not the other way around. This is by design. Since all SR sound systems can also decode A, but not all A systems can decode SR, then SR MUST sound acceptable when played back through A. But playing an A print in SR sounds REALLY BAD!

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Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1605
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 07-14-2002 10:46 PM

Brad...print was one of the new ones...it had the restoration credits at the end. Also, it sounded compressed, as in limited dynamic range. There was no pumping, just a flat sound.

The digital sound was an advertised and important part of this release They found an original 6-channel mix, and used that for the SDDS-8 version, making it identical to the original release. Both the Egyptian in LA and the Senator in Baltimore advertised 8-channel sound.

Thanks for everyone's help on this. I really appreciate it.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-15-2002 12:01 AM

This kind of reminds me of a problem I noticed at a local theater in the mall. The folks in the booth did not load the DTS discs, and on top of that did not have their automation set up correctly to engage SR style playback in the DTS-6AD cinema processor. All the audio was just coming out of the center channel speaker.

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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 07-15-2002 12:45 AM

Of course there are Woody Allen's wonderful mono digital movies like Curse of the Jade Scorpion and Small Time Crooks.

At my old theater, we used Ultra Stereo JSX units with only A-type cards for the CP's in our small houses. It would have sounded okay, but the screens were built with only one speaker behind them and no subs. SO the result was a mix of all the front channels into one speaker, and it sounded really harsh.

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