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Topic: Vertical Unsteadyness w/ Norelco AAII

Mathew Molloy
Master Film Handler

Posts: 357
From: The Santa Cruz Mountains
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-07-2002 02:17 PM

Let me start by saying I've never many (if any)problems with a Norelco until now - but until now all the machines I dealt with were well-maintained. Apparently Mann Theatres had left this one to die as the poor guy's a wreck but he's still chugging along (and I'm trying to avoid that rant!). That being said...

I'm having a difficult time keeping the image steady. In fact the tension on a single run seems to slip. We've gone through a set of new bands in just three months which is not right. There are times when the tension 'sounds right' but there's that unsteadiness so I have to tighten it a bit more for it to be steady but it sounds too tight. I've also got some new guys, who are doing real well, but they don't have the 'ear' yet for tension on the bands and will often tighten it too much.

One more thing, of the bands I replaced, only one was severely worn. I suspected the bands weren't laying evenly to begin with and this validated that suspicion.

Ya think it might be the entire lower pressure band assembly? I'm going to replace the threaded pin as I think that's causing the problem with the tension slipping, but I can't explain the uneven wear. I don't want to go ordering parts on this I don't need as they are damn expensive.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-07-2002 03:17 PM

purchase a roll of the velvet ribbon from Kinoton and contact cement to glue it to the bands (being carefull to trim around the lateral guides
When they get worn (about 3 months) peel them on and glue on a new strip

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-07-2002 05:33 PM

Measure your runners...verify they are within spec. There is a TSI on the runner heights. They have to be dead even with each other.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-07-2002 11:32 PM

Hows the intermittent sprocket? I assume in top condition.....has it already been reversed to use the opposite side of the teeth? If so, replace the sprocket if all else checks out ok. If the sprocket is good, and tight o its shaft, then check everything else you can without sending for parts. Also keep in mind that polyestar film has a higher wear factor on the runners than acetate does so the velvet thing is a good idea but you have to fix the existing problem first. You could substitute some parts in from another machine to help diagnose whats up. Just keep track of what parts go where. Lastly, yes, it could be the movement. Hopefully not though.
Mark @ GTS

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 07-08-2002 11:11 AM

I ran that Norelco, for a studio screening back in 1994.
It ran fine back then. But the Regent was a 70mm, move-over
house for Mann Theatres. It got an old Norelco from the
warehouse. About 4-5 years ago a Mann operator built-up a
show for a press screening later that night. About half
way into the picture. One of the reels was built-up backwards.
The Asst. was running the booth. She opened the gate with the
projector still running. Mann Theatre's put very little
money into keeping up the Regent and Plaza Theatres in Westwood.

Good Luck in Keeping that Norelco alive.

Bill

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Mathew Molloy
Master Film Handler

Posts: 357
From: The Santa Cruz Mountains
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-08-2002 02:05 PM

Bill, that explains why the shutter is about as sturdy as an aluminum pie tin and all the nicks and scrapes inside there.

Gordon, I've never heard of the velvet ribbon trick on the bands, and Steve, thanks for the advice on the runners. However I must ask if you're referring to the gate runners or the bands?

Mark, unfortunately Landmark has no other Norelcos in the area so I can't really swap any parts out..but I do have a new 35-only intermittent sprocket for the Norelco I'm going to give a try. I've already reversed the intermittent sprocket that's on there. I'll double check to be sure it's nice and tight though.

However after reading Bill's post my big concern is the movement. Thanks guys!

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Mathew Molloy
Master Film Handler

Posts: 357
From: The Santa Cruz Mountains
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-08-2002 02:10 PM

Bill, you should see the Regent now. Landmark did a pretty nice job fixing the place up! I'll be getting some pics online soon and post the link when I do.

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 07-08-2002 03:16 PM

I was at Mann's Huntington Oaks Six when that happened.
I had a movement go out and Mann had us go to the Bruin
and pull out the movement in projector #1. That projector
sat for about 8 months, before they fixed it. I had two
AAII at Huntington Oaks, when Mann pulled them out to go
into the basement at the Mann's National. I have a friend
that has some parts for AAII's. He is handling some equipment
from GCC houses. He had a few JJ's. Once you have a AA, all
other machines are toys.
Looking forward to the pictures of The Regent.

Laemmle Theatres ran that theatre in the 70's. (Pacific Booked
the house from the mid 70's). Mann Theatres picked up the
house in the early 80's. I think one of the first films to
play at Mann's Regent was a reissue of "Blazing Saddles".
I can still smell the paint

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-08-2002 04:13 PM

As it turns out, the TSI only deals with the 70mm runners.

As to the velvet ...it is part number 466 90299.

However, since you say one side wears first, I'm concerned. The bands should tension equally. There should be a link on the lower tension band holder assy that links the two sides...if it is missing or broken, only the outboard band will be under real tension.

Another thing to check if the picture is jumping is that the intermittnet sprocket is tight on the shaft.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 07-08-2002 04:30 PM

The ultimate Norelco requires retrofitting with a runner that has a continuous curve instead of the flat part by the aperture wherein the film can't decide whether to keep curving or go flat and in the heat of the moment sometimes compromises by fluttering. I've seen this adaptation done with a custom machined runner (35mm) and with a remarkably adapted Century JJ runner (70mm) which included some of the remnants of the Cinefocus seal (not used of course)!

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-09-2002 08:18 PM

Stuff to check....
Make sure the "hook" (where you attach the bands) at the top and bottom of the bands are closed tight enough to hold them on tight. I had to "adjust" mine with pliers.
Down at the bottom of the gate where you adjust the tension...
There are several little wire "rods" that go from the bottom of one band to the other. There should be several in a bundle. I once had one that only had one left. I don't know where the other ones went, I got it that way.
On adjusting tension....
Screw the little adjuster in to where it "sounds right". Then unscrew it till the picture "falls apart" then tighten it just a bit.
Put a second nut on that adjustment nut. Sometimes "just one" will unscrew itself.
The biggest contributor to vertical unsteadiness that I've had was a miss-adjusted intermittent. In one case it was wear. In another it was just not adjusted right when "rebuilt". Unfortunately these adjustments need to be done by someone that has some pretty snazzy measuring tools and understands why they are adjusting it. You'd need a dial indicator that measures down to .0001" to be accurate.
The fully curved gate helps a bunch too.
Hope this helps

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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