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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Potts Platter brain wrapping at end of show (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Potts Platter brain wrapping at end of show
Mike Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 224
From: Castle Hayne, NC, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 07-02-2002 07:46 PM      Profile for Mike Fitzgerald   Email Mike Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Iam looking for some thoughts on a Potts Platter problem we are having. The film runs fine until anywhere from 30 minutes to the end of the film. Then it slides off and brain wraps. I have replaced the round motor drive belts, reset the variac and the dancer setting. Timed the platters and reset the feed microswitch. I even took off the top platter and set it on the floor(after checking the floor for level)and releveling the deck. I have checked the level on the arm and the tower post all are level. I have checked the bearings on the decks and regreased them. The odd thing I noticed was that after checking the deck for level and putting it back on the arm, it then was hitting the drive motor only 50% of the time. We reset the deck to ride all the way around and it feeds much smoother but every 3 or 4 show we wind up with the brain wrap at the end of the movie. I also have tried to increase the humidity in the booth by placing a couple of pails of water in different places in the booth. Any suggestions would be great.

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Wes Hughes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 175
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 07-02-2002 07:52 PM      Profile for Wes Hughes   Email Wes Hughes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are you actually having a wrap that causes the print to throw, or throwing the print which is causing the wrap???

Even if you have "properly" timed the platters, if you are throwing prints and that is the start of your wraps, then you probably need to slow the platter a little (which involves only moving the motor up a bit).


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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 07-02-2002 07:53 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmmm, sounds like you've covered everything mechanically. If the print is actually sliding across the platter, I would try some grip tape, or place 4 or 5 "stick-a-poos" around the print.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-02-2002 09:14 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You've checked everything, but have you replaced the microswitches? I'd bet they're bad. You could also have a bad wiper brush on the variac, these fail on occasion as well. I always replace micros every two years, or sooner if they fail earlier. The latest micros are no where near as good as the old ones from 10 to 15 years ago....... Another suggestion is to buy them from a local microswitch supplier instead of from Strong. You'll save about 150% on the price!!
Mark @ GTS

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-02-2002 09:24 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark brings up a good point. At the end or near the end of the show, watch the dancer (or carriage as some call it) and see if it starts "hunting". If it hunts excessively, this will have a drastic effect in pay-out, since the variac sets the operating level of the pay-out as well as the take-up deck. It could be a variac problem as Mark suggests.

By the way, which Potts platter do you have? The old orange ones that look like Cinema Film Systems, or the ones that look identical to Strong's A-3?


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Steve Anderson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 168
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 07-02-2002 10:34 PM      Profile for Steve Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Steve Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We had a Strong A-3 that was doing the same thing two weeks ago and it was the microswitch. Mark your right about the new switches...just does not seem as strong of a "click" as the old ones.

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Don Sneed
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Texas City, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 07-02-2002 10:37 PM      Profile for Don Sneed   Author's Homepage   Email Don Sneed   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark & Paul sugguestions about the variac is correct, a 1" movement is ok, more than that, then the Variac is bad & needs to be rebuilt, another thing to check is the microswitch, be sure there is no spring on the microswitch located behind the switch arm...if there is...remove it !! It will cause too much tension for the microswitch to work properly....one time I had the same problem, all checked out ok...the feed arm moved smooth, no bind at all when move by hand, after all checked good, I removed the feed arm bearings & oiled them, reinstall, & anything worked perfectly, even though no bind was felt with my hand when checking the feed arm, oiling the bearings did the trick !! I would make sure the take-up carriage does move more than an inch & oil the feed arm bearings...but be sure to oil both bearing, upper & lower by taking off the feed arm bolt....Good Luck !!

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Don Sneed
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Texas City, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 07-02-2002 10:40 PM      Profile for Don Sneed   Author's Homepage   Email Don Sneed   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oppps... after re-reading my post...I left out a word....the carriage should NOT MOVE more than a inch, more than an inch is bad !!

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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-03-2002 12:57 AM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Also be sure that the platter decks are CLEAN! Oil from a print can leech down onto the deck making it slick. Clean out the bearings on the movable arm on the control plate with some Xekote.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 07-03-2002 04:15 AM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would check the microswitch, also sometimes it helps if you use an allen wrench and tighten the screw that holds down the actuator if it gets loose it can cause the arm to rub on the plate of the brain. when the film is close to the center it can pull the arm over with more force but once it starts to get out to the edge of the deck it cant pull the arm as hard and it can wrap. if you tightn the allen screw untul you see it lift off of the plate a little it may help.

------------------
--Sean McKinnon
Manager
Loews Cineplex Entertainment
Liberty Tree Mall 20
Danvers, Mass
www.enjoytheshow.com

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-03-2002 05:24 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Did you check to make sure the word "Autowind 3" was at the top of the tree? Clearly that is the problem here. Your company bought the wrong product.

Ok so that didn't really help, but I couldn't resist. I have nothing but bad things to say about microswitch type Strong/Potts/CFS/ORC platters. Given the choice of running off of those, I'd choose reels and 20 minute manual changeovers. You might want to make a print belt and then get about 20 BevanPoos and stick them around your print. That probably won't be enough, but it may help a little bit until you can get rid of that thing. I have yet to see one of these run acceptably to me, regardless of who set it up.

In the meantime, it looks like all of the standard troubleshooting has been covered already in this thread. Good luck and remember to curse at the machine a lot.

(P.S. Don-you can edit your post instead of posting a second time. )


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-03-2002 05:39 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To amplify Don's post, the one-inch movement or less should be a slow gradual change, and not a wild one. A wild change will cause the pay-out platter to toss the remaining part of the print.


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Wes Hughes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 175
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 07-03-2002 07:53 AM      Profile for Wes Hughes   Email Wes Hughes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have run Strong/Ballantyne/Potts platters for many years and have very few problems...and those few can usually be solved. I do not like phase control payout heads, but a NON self-programming Strong platter with microswitches is a great value.

I use them at my location now: One five-deck, one five-deck mini, two three-deck. I do not use any type of film retainer at all...just a tuck. The only issue I have ever had was a motor failure due to spent brushes.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-03-2002 08:33 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike Fitzgerald said: "I also have tried to increase the humidity in the booth by placing a couple of pails of water in different places in the booth. Any suggestions would be great."

Since the introduction of KODAK VISION Color Print Film, "static cling" problems have been greatly reduced. Summer in North Carolina tends to have higher humidity, so I don't think that is the issue (but you should measure it with an accurate humidity gauge). If the relative humidity is indeed too low, use an evaporative humidifier to add moisture to the air --- "pails of water in different places in the booth" is ineffective in increasing humidity. The ideal range for film handling is 50 to 60 percent RH.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-03-2002 09:19 AM      Profile for Pat Moore   Email Pat Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have to step up a bit here and say that there are literally thousands of Strong (and Potts) Platters out there running on a daily basis, using microswitches in their payout assemblies, without any problems. Are they as elegant as a Strong SCDC or other electronic platters in terms of linear film feed out? Nope. But neither are they designed to be. Are they my first choice in my booth? No, probably not, depending on the budget. Catastrophic or serious problems are few and far between in my experience, and if properly operated and cared for they'll run an awful lot of film without fault. What's easier to troubleshoot than a microswitch?

It does sound like all the suggestions have been made and are good ones -- I'd lean towards the variac and/or the brush assembly for this problem, though, if the platter is 5 yrs old or more.

And yes, I'll readily admit that those switches are too expensive from us. I'm looking to remedy that, at least to reduce the "ouch".

Pat


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