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Author Topic: Xenon - Premature Failure
Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-28-2002 05:56 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One of the Xenon lamps I installed in May is dead after about a month of operation.

The metal ends of the lamp are clean...like new.

The bulb itself is another story. It is 100% black-and-blue inside (it is impossible to see the electrodes).

What could have caused this?

Lamp type: PerkinElmer XM2000HTP
Console: Christie CC20-CH20 (or CH20-CC20?)


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Steven Gorsky
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Frederick, MD, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 06-28-2002 06:21 PM      Profile for Steven Gorsky   Author's Homepage   Email Steven Gorsky   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Have a look at the topic titled "HELP!! Black and blue bulbs" - there's even a picture of a failed lamp, it's on page 32 right now - last time it was posted to was January 15, 2002.

Basically it was decided that it was caused by seal failure and/or poor cooling.

Steven Gorsky


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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 06-28-2002 06:22 PM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds like it got too hot and blew a seal. Check the bulb seal blowers in the lamphouse and the roof exhaust fan for proper operation (cleanliness of the blower fins and that the motor is spinning fast enough).

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-28-2002 06:32 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had a theatre that was going through xenons like candy. They swore up and down that the fans were all running and there was enough air flow.

I went there and took the cover off the back of the lamphouse (Xetron) and there were just clods of dust bunnies clogging up the tube. I bet they hadn't been cleaned out in years. I got the shop vac and cleaned them out. They haven't had any trouble ever since.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-28-2002 07:01 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I cleaned out the blower intake today when I changed the bulb. I've seen worse (in this same building) but it was kind-of clogged. I used a flat-head screwdriver to scrape the dust off of the blades.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-28-2002 07:17 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny, check your duct work and exhaust fan. It could have a slipping, broken, or out of adjustment belt. The impeller in that fan could also be cruddy.


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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-28-2002 07:22 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good thinking. I will ask the airconditioning company to come in and inspect the exhaust.

When I scraped the dust-bunnies off of the squirrel cage intake earlier today...something I did not do was oil the motor. I haven't worked for this chain in about 2 years so I have no idea when was the last time the motor was oiled.

Although...I can say that I know it's spinning and that air is moving through the tubes. At least I remembered to checked that.


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Michael Rourke
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 159
From: San Luis Obispo, Central Coast of CA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-28-2002 10:29 PM      Profile for Michael Rourke   Email Michael Rourke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny, use a toothbrush instead of a screwdriver on the squirrel cage to avoid breaking or bending any of the blades, also be careful not to break off any counerweights on the squirrel cage.

The intake motors should be cleaned thoroughly every time you change the bulb and the motor should be oiled every 6 months.

I service the exhaust fans every 2 years because they are suspended above each lamphouse, but if yours are on the roof or somewhere that is easily accessible then I would bump it up to every year.


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-28-2002 11:41 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, if possible, remove the blower from the lamphouse and remove the impeller. I use "Simple Green", 409, or AP-10 and warm water to clean them. I found Simple Green as a raw solution works the best. It'll get the impeller clean in the matter of seconds. All that you need to do is just slosh the impeller around in the solution, and that should do the trick. Then be sure to clean the impeller housing because there is also a ton of crap that collects in there, too. Be absolutely sure you get it all out of there!

I use compressed air (where possible) to blow the dirt out of the motor, and then oil it with SAE 20 non-detergent motor oil, or whatever the motor manufacturer recommends. If it calls for two drops, use two drops and not three. Don't use the thought "If two is good, three is better." It does not work that way.... It'll throw it out of the bearing, and possibly wind up as an oil deposite on the xenon bulb.


I generally do not support the idea of using a toothbrush, screwdriver, or anything like that for cleaning the squirrel cage, simply because all the dirt is dislodged and will usually fall into the blower housing. In addition to that, as mentioned in a previous post, it is very easy to dislodge and lose the balance weights. When the motor is started, all the dirt that fell into the housing will fly out and deposite itself on the mirror, xenon bulb, and other parts as well. Since this accumulation of dirt also has oil in it, a small deposite on the xenon bulb may cause it to blow up.

Seen it happen......unfortunately.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-29-2002 01:25 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In my humble opinion it is the standard PE/ORC mode of failure that doesn't include a big bang

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-29-2002 01:28 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah Gordon...They just go "Pbpthbpthbthp!"

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-26-2002 03:42 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, well, well...

...You'll NEVER guess what happened...

Another one down! Same lamp house.

My supplier will be sending an Ushio just in case I got hold of some bad PerkinElmer (ORC) lamps. I suppose if the Ushio dies then we'll have to look closely at the machine.

In the meantime, is there something we should be checking right away to rule out a problem with the lamp house?

Tell me something about Ushio lamps: I've never used them. I know that they make Christie lamps, but are Christie's and Ushio's identical or does Ushio make something else for the Christie brand?


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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 07-26-2002 04:13 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ushio is the parent of Christie......
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-26-2002 04:47 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm wondering if the use of different brands means anything here...?

For instance: I think Lexus and Toyota are the same company...but there's a decided difference between the level of quality with which each brand is associated.

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 07-26-2002 07:08 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would not like to buy a low end Lexus to impress anyone....why pay $10,000 more for a Toyota Camry in a "dress kit" or the mid size Jaguar on a Ford Mustang chassis.....in a finite market such as cinema supplies it would be a waste for Ushio to have a different quality vs Christie branded items. In the testing phase if a bulb is defective at the factory level parts are actually recycled and reworked as necessary due to the hand work involved in making xenon bulbs.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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