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Author Topic: What is an anode made of?
Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 06-01-2002 10:44 AM      Profile for Mike Olpin   Email Mike Olpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can anyone please explain what an anode is made out of, and how it works?

Thanks

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 06-01-2002 12:25 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The anode is made of Tungsten, the metal with the highest melting point, and also what lightbulb filaments are made of. The cathode also is tungsten, but has a radioactive coating to increase electron emission. It is my understanding that today they put less of this coating on the cathodes, and as a result, the bulbs dont last as long, because they become chewed up and pitted by the current of the ignition cycle.

When the bulb is "struck" a high voltage RF pulse is feed to the bulb. Because the RF voltage is an alternating current, both electrodes are being hurt. The ignition voltage is high enough to ionize the gas between the electrodes, and an arc forms between the gaps. Because the gap has already been broken down, the low voltage DC can cross the gap, and produce lots of light.

Any other questions

Josh

------------------
"Film is made of silver, video is made of rust"
'nuf said


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-01-2002 12:30 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The anode in a xenon lamp? They are made of a metal alloy. I believe it is a tungsten-steel alloy of some type. I bet the exact composition is a trade secret.

The anode is the positive electrode of the lamp. (The cathode is the negative.) Electrons come in through the anode and jump the gap toward the other electrode. The xenon gas gets excited and gives off light. It's kind of like a subatomic game of billiards.

Xenon is one of the noble gases. (Helium, Neon, Argon, Krypton and Xenon.) They are VERY stable atoms. They have all of their elecrons in their outer shell. (Think like the solar system... The sun is the nucleus and the planets are the electrons.) Since it's very hard to knock an electron out of place in an atom like that, noble gases don't react with other elements very easily.

So, here comes this electron jumping off the the cathode and "flying" though an atmosphere of xenon gas. A lot of those electons are bound to hit an atom of the gas. When it does, one of the electrons in the outer shell gets knocked away from it's "ground state" into a larger orbit. The electron doesn't like that and wants to go back to the way it was. When it snaps back to it's original place it gives off the extra energy in the form of a photon.

Now, imagine that a huge number of electrons (6.25 X 10^25) TIMES the number of amps your lamp burns at) jumping that gap every second. Put a like number of xenon molecules inside that glass envelope (hence, the reason there is so much pressure inside) and think about the number of little collisions there would be... and how many photons would be given off. We're talking GOZILLIONS!

The anode is just the "landing pad" for those electrons after they have made the jump. The reason it's larger than the other one is that they need a bigger target. After being bounced off a few zillion xenon atoms they aren't flying in a straight line anymore so they become spread out. Sort of like the way water comes out of a garden hose when you put it on fine spray.

The anode (and the cathode) are made of tungsten alloy because they need to be able to withstand the heat caused by the hundreds of culoumbs of electrons whizzing through them every second. Even then, they can't withstand that kind of tourture forever. Ever notice that the ends of the electrodes get rounded off after they have been used for a while? That's because some of the metal has been literally vaporized. When the glass in your xenon lamp starts getting dark grey or black, that's becasue the metal vaporized off the elecrodes has deposited itself there.

When enough of the metal has been eroded it's time to replace the lamp. Otherwise the blackening will block a lot of the light. I would bet that it would cause the glass to get hotter too and raise the chances that the glass will fail. When the electrodes get worn away they start operating inefficiently. It takes more and more energy to push them across the gap. The heat goes up and less and less light gets produced. Finally, the lamp will give out all together if you don't replace it. It it gets too bad, the glass will give way or else the ceramic seal on the end of the lamp will blow out.

When that happens, the gas inside there will get really big... really fast! (It will explode.) If you're lucky it will just go, "Ffffsssshhhhhhh!" and leak out in a semi-controled manner. Then the air will get in and start burning. That's what causes the inside of a lamp to go milky white, sometimes, when they fail.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-01-2002 12:39 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No Randy. they go "Pbpthbpthbthp!", too ! (sometimes.)

or "POW!"

Sorry, I could not resist.


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Jan Hackett
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 06-01-2002 01:00 PM      Profile for Jan Hackett   Email Jan Hackett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I like the analogy you gave. My old electronics instructor use to say the cathode boiled the electrons and the anode sucked them up like an exhaust vent. By changing the attraction on the anode one varies the brightness.

------------------
Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 06-01-2002 01:18 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>The cathode also is tungsten, but has a radioactive coating to increase electron emission<<

I don't think so. If that were true, xenon bulbs would require extensive labeling re: the radioactive materials, and used bulbs would be considered HAZMAT and require specialized (read expensive) disposal .

-Aaron

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 06-01-2002 01:21 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe the coating was thorium or something, but they do still use minute amounts of it to extend cathode life. Very similar to what they use in vacuum tube cathodes. Now tubes dont require special disposal now do they.....Especially those regulator tubes.

JJ

------------------
"Film is made of silver, video is made of rust"
'nuf said


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John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 06-01-2002 02:13 PM      Profile for John Anastasio   Author's Homepage   Email John Anastasio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy,

Electrons enter through the negatively charged CATHODE and jump the gap to the positively charged ANODE. Those little buggers have a negative charge and they want to get to that positive charge. It's a common misconception that a current flows from the + to the -, an idea that actually goes back to Ben Franklin. The actual flow is from - to +. Otherwise, the beam in a picture tube would flow from the faceplate back into the electron gun!

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Jan Hackett
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 06-01-2002 02:35 PM      Profile for Jan Hackett   Email Jan Hackett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
- to + is the common perception I heard engineers design + to -.

Isn't it only perception anyway? Electrons do their stuff and we just need a way to visualize them doing it.

------------------
Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-01-2002 03:55 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was under the impression the thorium coating on the cathode was to prevent pre-mature eroading.

Disposal of a spent Xenon Lamp normally should not cause too much of a problem. However, I know of a person who saved up a whole bunch of cathodes. When he pointed a Geiger Counter in it's direction and had it about a foot away from the pile of cathodes, it drove the Geiger Counter nuts!

In eny avent, I would not recommend the cathodes be carried around in your pocket.


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-01-2002 05:16 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You're right. I have a tendancy to get things like "plus", "minus", anode and cathode all mixed up. I even double check to be sure I get things right, but unless I keep a dictionary right by my desk I still get a certain number of things wrong like that.

I know this shit... Honest!

Just don't ever ask me to do something like, "Go to Maple Drive, turn right and stop at house number 1321"because I'll turn LEFT on Apple Drive and stop at house number 1231!

(Paul: After they go "Pbpthbpthbthp!" the projector goes "Wooga-Wooga!" )


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-01-2002 06:29 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy, that they do.....especially some of the old Simplex's. Once I forgot to install the ratchet lock screw on a Simplex Super intermediate gear in an old carbon arc house.

About 10 minutes into the reel, a strange noise was emitted from that old Super that sounded like "WOOGA WOOGA! - CLINK - BLAM..CLUNK!" Then I heard the "WOOGA WOOGA" noise on the floor, followed by a "Plop!"

By the way, are you going to put "Pbpthbpthpthp" in your dictionary? When you finish your dictionary, can I get a copy?


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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 06-01-2002 08:33 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Years ago, back in the carbon arc days, projectionists were asked to save copper drippings, cash them in at a metal dealer, and send the proceeds to the Will Rogers Fund for lung disease (at least I THINK that was the cause). Probably caused by burning carbons in an enclosed enviroment.

Would anyone be interested in doing a similar thing with discarded xenon bulb anodes and donating the proceeds to the Rick Long Memorial Beer Fund?


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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-01-2002 08:46 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul & Randy: Don't forget Jack Lemmon and the Gloppity Glop Machine.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-01-2002 09:10 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I saw a story about a kid who wanted his own nuclear reactor. He bought thousands of surplus gas lamp mantles - these are small cotton bags with a touch of thorium as used in your Coleman type lanterns. He burned them and somehow recovered the thorium from the ashes. Quite an inventive fellow. The family garage and a foot of the lawn was trucked away by spacesuited guys when the authorities caught on.

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