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Author Topic: Early Xenon Failure
Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-28-2002 07:23 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So there was this unused Xenon lamp lying around in one of our booths and I noticed it was stored kind-of funny...at an angle amid piles of trailers. Also, I noticed what looked like water stains on the carton.

I decided not to use that lamp and ordered new ones.

After I left, the manager decided he'd use that lamp (after I had expressed my concerns to him).

I told him I was annoyed with him because (a) it was dangerous; he has no training and wore no safety gear and (b) I had already told him that I thought the lamp was questionable.

One month later (today) that lamp is dead.

And...guess what...he went and installed another lamp; he's still untrained.

Furthermore, I would have preferred to get the console checked out for an electrical fault before putting another $500 lamp inside.

Geez.

I'd like your input: What could have caused that lamp to fail so early?

My money's on "bad karma."

Seriously, could it have been just a bad bulb...or fingerprints..? Am I going too far to have the console checked out for wiring? I'm now told that "it used to make a funny noise."

BTW, I am not an electrician...There's another guy who will be handling this. But your input could help save time and get him back to Miami a little faster. I know he'd appreciate that.

------------------
~Manny.

Some people can read "War and Peace" and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story while I, on the other hand, can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.
Lex Luthor, "Superman: The Movie"


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-28-2002 08:55 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny, it depends on what kind of failure the xenon lamp experienced. If it was finger prints, I think the thing would probably have blown up. It could have been a seal failure and just went "flat."

Who manufactured the bulb?

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-28-2002 09:31 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul:

It's a PerkinElmer XM2000H/VC. If I understand correctly it failed during a show.

~Manny.


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-28-2002 09:47 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny, did it blow up, or just go "Pbpthbpthbthp!". What did the envlope look like when it was removed from the lamphouse?

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-28-2002 10:42 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul:

It did not explode. This theatre is on another island, so I will have to travel there to see things first-hand. I don't think I'll learn a whole lot more until I get there.

The console type is ORC Optimax CV1600.

~Manny.


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-28-2002 11:01 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let us know what it looks like when you see it.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 05-28-2002 11:44 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>It's a PerkinElmer XM2000H/VC.<<

That explains it all. ORC/PerkinElmer bulbs are total garbage. I have had generic CHINESE bulbs that outlasted PerkinElmer bulbs many times over...

-Aaron


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-28-2002 11:54 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have seen xenon and quartz/halogen bulbs die from fingerprint dirt and not explode. What happens is a bubble forms and the gas blows through the thin spot. A spout of hot gas shoots out the hole but the lamp keeps burning.

The whole inside of the glass turns milky white (from the air) and it looks like the inside of the bulb is on fire. If it wasn't so dangerous, it'd be kinda' cool.

If it was me, I would have taken that xenon, busted it to smithereens and tossed it into the dumpster.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-28-2002 11:54 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, Aaron....It probably popped a seal....and went Pbpthbpthbthp!

I had some off-the-wall bulbs go "Pbspthbptsihbthp!" on several occassions. There was a gent at the Sho-West Trade Show that was pushing some new overseas bulb about 8 years ago. I talked him into letting me try one, and he agreed that if I was not happy with it I didn't have to pay for the bulb. If I liked it, then he said I should pay for it. Sounded like a good deal to me.

When I got the bulb, I stuffed it in the XH-30 ORC lamphouse, and I was amazed on how nice the light looked. About 300 hours later, it blew the seal. Funny thing is the seal blew during cool-down, and I was threading the projector for the next show. Then I heard the "Pbspthbptsihbthp!" sound, and I immediately knew what it was. I had plenty of time to install a new bulb, but the sound of the seal letting loose was funny!

Anyway, I sent the bulb back, and there was no questions asked.

Randy, I never seen one do that.


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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-29-2002 06:10 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Aaron:

I've been reading a lot lately about the unreliability of ORC/EG&G/PerkinElmer bulbs but, generally, I must have been lucky because all of the one I've installed (so far) have panned out just fine.

In fact, I'm finding that a good amount of these lamps are the ones I installed two years ago (before I left the company that I'm now working for again).

I am interested in trying Christie bulbs because I've been reading about the superior quality of light from those.

------------------
~Manny.

Some people can read "War and Peace" and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story while I, on the other hand, can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.
Lex Luthor, "Superman: The Movie"


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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-29-2002 06:14 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
BTW, can anybody give me the manufacturer's specs on PerkinElmer XM1600 (HS / HVC) and XM2000 (HTP / HVC) lamps?

A rep. gave me some amp. ranges, but no voltage. Is there a generally "assumed" voltage or something?

Thanks,
Manny.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-29-2002 07:11 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
"Is there a generally "assumed" voltage or something?"

The nature of xenon arc lamps is that the operating voltage is relatively constant.
The lamp current is really the important specification. The voltage is dependent on current but also the gas composition/pressure and the electrode gap, so unless something is very weird it will be in the normal 20-odd volts range with that size lamp.
Lamp specs give an acceptable range of current and voltage - not any exact requirements. Most lamps come with a test card that says what volt/amp readings the factory tested it at, your readings should be close. Ssomething is fishy if your readings are very different - but unless the lamp has lost pressure the problem is with the lamphouse circuits. There is simply no way to force a change in a xenon lamp's voltage/current ratio.

Side note: I have never installed a lamp and been able to match those test card readings. (i.e. I set exactly the current on the test card, and the voltage is never the same as on the card) Maybe the measurement points are different? Who knows, just don't expect to match the test card numbers exactly.



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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-29-2002 09:27 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, Paul, I had this kid come running up to me one day yelling that projector #7 was on fire. I bolted over there to find the situation I described... A bubble of glass had erupted from the side of the lamp. It did LOOK like the thing was on fire, though.

When stage lamps go, the glass sometimes shatters and the whole thing dies shortly thereafter. (The filiament burns up in the air.) Other times, the thing will just crack down the side, letting all the gas out and letting air in. I guess there's not enough air in there to burn up the filiament, because it keeps burning.

Whatever the cause, it looks pretty spectacular.

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