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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » DTS vs. Dolby Can you tell the difference? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: DTS vs. Dolby Can you tell the difference?
Mark Huff
Film Handler

Posts: 69
From: Springfield, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 05-23-2002 02:32 AM      Profile for Mark Huff   Email Mark Huff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My question is can the average customer tell the difference between DTS and Dolby. I am in the middle of a debate with a co-worker about the possibility of distinguishing the difference between the two.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-23-2002 06:21 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Average customer? No, I don't believe so.

Personally, I can tell the difference at MY THEATRE as I know what's what, our SRD has a much more subtle feel to it and DTS is a bit harsher. Not by much, but I'm in there every day and know the system but I doubt it would be possible for me to walk into another and do the same.


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"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage". - Indiana Jones.

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 05-23-2002 07:40 AM      Profile for Chad Souder   Email Chad Souder   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with John that DTS is a bit harsher. It seems more crisp and defined, whereas Dolby seems to have a more full, rich sound, especially in the low ranges. Perhaps a similar comparison would be a CD and a record? I have heard customers notice a difference at our theatre, but of course some of it has to do with auditorium acoustics and other factors.

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Tim Turner
Film Handler

Posts: 87
From: Chula Vista, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 05-23-2002 09:57 AM      Profile for Tim Turner   Email Tim Turner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah Dolby has way more low range than DTS, DTS has the high range.

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-23-2002 10:38 AM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've found it very difficult to distinguish the two, since none of the auditoriums in my area have both installed. Different rooms and different sound systems have varying sound characteristics on their own. If I heard both in the same room over the same sound system, I might could learn to distinguish them over time.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site

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Christopher Duvall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 500
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-23-2002 05:31 PM      Profile for Christopher Duvall   Email Christopher Duvall   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Studios and directors mix the each track differently as well. Some will pay more attention to the DTS track than the Dolby and vise-versa. I have noticed this with DVD's as well.


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John Moriarty
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: Cambridge, UK
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-23-2002 06:00 PM      Profile for John Moriarty   Email John Moriarty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Studios and directors mix the each track differently as well. Some will pay more attention to the DTS track than the Dolby and vise-versa.

Why? What reason is there for not creating a single 5.1 (or 6.1) mix, and making the Dolby Digital and DTS tracks from this?

Hope this isn't a dumb question.

John


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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-23-2002 06:00 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think some of the difference has to be in how the sound system is set up. In most theaters I've visited where DTS and Dolby Digital are both in the same rack, I usually prefer the DTS track.

I've heard Dolby Digital playback sound really good at a few theaters (the best examples I ever heard were at the deceased GCC Northpark #1 in Dallas, particularly "Crimson Tide" and "The Lion King"). However, I have to say a lot of DTS shows I saw there packed just as much oomph, if not more so. "Apollo 13" was really incredible --it felt like the rocket was taking off in the theater. Really cool.

I've also heard Dolby Digital playback that was absolutely horrible. I watched "Kiss the Girls" in a then-brand new THX theater in Wichita Falls, TX run by Carmike. The screen was newly tuned, had a new Dolby CP-500 processor, QSC amps, everything top notch. The sound quality still sucked. I come back up to Lawton, watch the same film again in a different THX auditorium using a Dolby CP-65, DTS-6 and QSC amps --noticeably better quality. Years later, I revisit the film on DVD and listen to it with a higher bitrate (448kb/s) Dolby Digital track and the film sounded good.

Some of the differences, I'm sure, have to do with different audio masters being used for the encoding process. I've been less than impressed with some DTS shows; whereas others just simply walloped with really great quality audio. "Casper" of all films goes down as having one of the most walloping balls-to-the-wall DTS mixes I have ever heard. The bass on that one was just incredible.

Of the previous posts, I'm pretty surprised at the "DTS is harsher" comments. I usually find the reverse to be true.

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David Baum
Film Handler

Posts: 90
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 05-23-2002 06:03 PM      Profile for David Baum     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
well, surprised to see the comments here.
first, let's not forget that the LFE channel of DTS is in the surrounds (Cinema DTS) and often "less" pushed up as the LFE in Dolby digital mixes. On the otherhand, DTS mixes often have more bass in the front channels...
Also, Dolby combines channels as certain frequencies... DTS remain constantly discrete, full range, on all channels.
This can also be heard on dvds, where the DTS track seems often more violent, "more free" and more "demanding" on the system you use, while the dolby tracks often has that same "pumped up" LFE channel... Another reason why it's better at home to listen in the SMALL mode and leave the subwoofers do the job, unless you have VERY LARGE and VERY RARE ( if not very expensive ) speakers...

A good rule of thinking is this imho: first, the mix itself. then the codec. a bad mix won't transform itself into a superb mix just because dts or sdds is used. but a good mix will sound better when switching from dolby to dts...

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 05-23-2002 07:22 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Someone would have to calibrate each system very carefully to do a valid A-B listening test. Even just a slight difference in levels or EQ, or a cinema processor with a little "noise" in the signal path or something, would possibly be enough to skew the results. And you would want to be able to switch format on the fly.

So having said all that, I really can't notice any difference. Sometimes if I don't know what the format is, I'll try to guess, then ask them later, and I often turn out to be wrong. In the early days of digital sound it seemed like dropouts were the best clue. DTS almost never had dropouts, even from the beginning. SR-D seems to have gotten a LOT better in that department since it first came out (why did SR-D almost always have dropouts at reel change splices in the early days? Has improved software helped mask dropouts?).

I remember the first time I found out I had just sat through a movie in SDDS (which I thought sounded excellent), but I was sure it had to be DTS or SR-D because of the SDDS harshness issue others have commented on (which turns out to be more of an EQ problem than something inherently wrong with SDDS).

In a blind A-B comparison with "normal" film sound and properly-calibrated hardware, I bet very few people could tell any difference.



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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-23-2002 08:08 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The only FAIR way to do it is to have all 3 formats in one sound system, and to bypass all of the SDDS internal EQing and route it "flat" into the analog processor so that all 3 formats share the exact same EQ settings and of course all formats must be exactly level matched as well. That being said, I don't think any typical customer would ever be able to tell the difference between the formats. I've done many an A/B comparison in more than one auditorium and indeed they are VERY close. Funny as it may sound, some movies on the A/B (or A/B/C) tests just sound better in one format as opposed to another. Generally I've found SDDS to be the winner, but of course NEVER when the internal EQing was used.

Regarding the masters, I've always understood that there was one master mix that was sent to all 3 companies for encoding into their respective formats (special 8 channel SDDS mixes are the exception, of course). Perhaps someone from Dolby, dts or sdds can comment.

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-23-2002 08:40 PM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
While it is true that the only fair evaluation is to use the same sound system amplifiers, EQ's, speakers, and auditorium...it is not true to use the same EQ settings. Each format should be referenced and EQ'd to the ISO standard.

I doubt if anyone could tell the difference. In fact, I think most, if not all, patrons could tell the difference between analog multi-channel and any digital format in a properly set-up theater.

Also, I fail to see what the recording of the DTS LFE in the surrounds has to do with anything since the surround speakers only reproduce frequencies far above that range. Excepting of course Special Venue point-source rear/surround speakers.

>>> Phil


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-23-2002 10:08 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Ummm, Phil, care to clarify? Example sound system:

CP200
SDDS DFP-2500
DTS 6-D
DA20

And how are you suggesting the calibration should differ?

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Jonathan M. Crist
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 531
From: Hershey, PA, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 05-24-2002 12:24 PM      Profile for Jonathan M. Crist   Email Jonathan M. Crist   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I recall about three years ago (just before the first "Mummy' came out) that there were notices placed in the print cans that the subwoffer channel of the DTS mix was going to be 'downsized' and from that point on it would be necessary to increase the amp output on the subwooffer channel for DTS playback to compensate for this mix.

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-24-2002 04:27 PM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not suggesting that the calibration should be different....I am saying it should be the same. With a single EQ setting, typically in the "B" chain, one has to ensure that all "A" chain film format sources are tweaked flat and set to the proper playback reference levels for that format. The audio system should be set up so the auditorium has the same electro-acoustical response no matter which film sound format is playing.

>>> Phil

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