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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » JBL Loudspeakers - Bi-Amp Questions (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: JBL Loudspeakers - Bi-Amp Questions
Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-21-2002 10:55 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a set of JBL 4675C speakers (built-in crossover network) and I'm wondering if it would be better to use the built-in crossover, or use the one in the processor and then bi-amp.

I prefer the whole idea of bi-amping but I'm wondering if this is a case where it wouldn't be a good idea.

What about the 4670D? It's essentially the same speaker with a smaller horn.

------------------

~Manny.

Now...where was I ?
Leonard Shelby, MEMENTO.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-21-2002 11:28 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bi amping is always preffered
It leads to lower distorion for several reasons
1 time alignment of the drivers at the crossover frequency (not provided in the cp45 internal crossover)
2 Improved amplifier performance as the powersupply rails don't get swampped as easily
3 equalization of the horn
and better driver protection

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 05-22-2002 02:47 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yup, all that!

The 4670D is just that Manny, same thing with a different horn, suited for different size of theatres.

One of my favourite loudspeakers too! I've also been using the Screen Array series JBL lately, and am quite well pleased with those.

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David Koegel
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Alexandria, VA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-22-2002 09:20 AM      Profile for David Koegel   Email David Koegel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's a very good manual on JBL's website titled "Cinema Sound System Manual" that covers these speakers, their specs, bi-amping, etc. If I'm doing the UBB'ing correctly here, you should be able to download it by clicking here:

SoundManual

JBL's Professional main website is at:
http://www.jblpro.com/

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-26-2002 11:43 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate the info and the tips.

One more question about the 4670D and the 4675C...

They both have a built-in crossover network (4638-TH)...Is it necessary (or advisable) to bypass the JBL crossover since I'm using the Dolby circuitry to separate HF and LF?

My fear is that removing the crossover from the speaker cabinet would change its acoustical properties. But...at the same time...Do I really want a signal that's already been "filtered" to pass through another "filter" ?

Right now, I'm feeding the LF signal to the speaker via its built-in crossover...nothing connected to the HF output of the network. The HF is getting its signal directly from its corresponding amplifier.

Just reading through their catalog...JBL doesn't seem to recommend these speakers for bi-amping...they're pushing the 4675-8LF instead.

These 4670D's and 4675C's are the speakers that are already in these auditoria and the owner isn't interested in upgrading them at this time (and besides, they're good speakers, right?).

------------------
~Manny.

Some people can read "War and Peace" and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story while I, on the other hand, can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.
Lex Luthor, "Superman: The Movie"


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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 05-26-2002 03:41 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny,
you can safely convert the 4670D and 4675C to bi-amp if done properly with a electronic crossover. the 4638TH bass cabinet handles less power than the 4648 bass cabinet supplied with the 4675-8 or 4LF system...it has to be a judgement call based on the cubit size of the room....if they have been working fine passively in the existing situation, they will probably fly......We stock JBL and have done training seminars with their assistance and other manufacturers.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc www.tvpmiami.com

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-26-2002 08:20 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>"cubit size of the room"<<

Cubit? Whats a cubit? ... RIGHT!

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 05-26-2002 08:34 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cubits are those munckins that ran off with your Rockports in the Kinoton booth at ShoWest
Total volume of room expressed in feet or meters...My association with JBL products goes back when Norm Schneider ( Smart ) was the rep for the Southeast USA in the early 1970's
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-26-2002 08:50 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe that the cubit was a ancient unit of measure of the egyptions

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 05-26-2002 09:29 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Those pryamids where a hassle to run background music lines and speakers when I was a small tyke
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-27-2002 09:26 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Haven't any of you hear the Bill Cosby routine on Noah and the Ark? Called "RIGHT"

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-28-2002 02:57 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What's a cubit?
http://jr.co.il/humor/noah4.txt
http://www.clown-ministry.com/Ministry/Skits/Noah-skit.html

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Sean M. Grimes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: Lunenburg, MA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 05-28-2002 04:23 PM      Profile for Sean M. Grimes   Author's Homepage   Email Sean M. Grimes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve -

How long can you tread water?

One of his best skits ever, RIGHT....

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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 05-30-2002 05:49 AM      Profile for Ray Derrick   Email Ray Derrick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, are we talking Royal Cubits here (20.5 Pyramid Inches) or garden variety cubits?

Richard, how many cubits does it take to change a light bulb?....ah never mind.

Manny, you should bypass the built-in crossover in your JBLs completely if you are bi-amping the system, otherwise you will end up with a nasty hole around the crossover frequency.

------------------
Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935


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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-30-2002 10:12 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ray, that's what I was curious about.

Any suggestions on how to do that without leaving a big square hole in the side of the LF cabinet (where the xover is now) ?
Wouldn't such a hole change the acoustic properties of the LF module ?
Does anybody sell a speaker terminal the same size ?

------------------
~Manny.

Some people can read "War and Peace" and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story while I, on the other hand, can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.
Lex Luthor, "Superman: The Movie"


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